Decarbonising Deliveries

[00:00:07] You're listening to Retail Disrupted, a podcast that explores the latest industry developments and the trends that will shape how we shop in the future.

[00:00:16] I'm your host, Natalie Berg.

[00:00:19] Welcome back to Retail Disrupted.

[00:00:32] Joining me on the podcast today is Merva Iqbal, who is the co-CEO and co-founder of Hived.

[00:00:38] Hived is the first delivery company designed for the e-commerce market.

[00:00:42] Merva co-founded the business in 2021 with Matthias Krieger, and since then, they have been on a mission to revolutionize the way that our parcels get delivered.

[00:00:51] They're doing this with a sustainability as standard approach through their all-electric fleet.

[00:00:57] Hived has already delivered millions of parcels across London for major brands, including ASOS, Uniqlo, Nespresso, and Zara.

[00:01:06] Merva herself was a young entrepreneur.

[00:01:08] At just 15, she took over marketing and branding for her uncle's fast food chain.

[00:01:14] She also played football and was captain of Manchester City until the age of 18.

[00:01:19] Merva met Matthias at university, and they founded a startup together selling advertising on the side of delivery vans before going on to launch Hived.

[00:01:32] Merva, it's so great to have you on the show today.

[00:01:35] We're going to talk all things delivery, but before we do that, I'd love to hear more about your story.

[00:01:40] It sounds like you developed quite an entrepreneurial flair in your teenage years.

[00:01:44] So tell us more about how you got started and where your inspiration for business came from.

[00:01:49] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:01:50] Well, thanks for having me on.

[00:01:52] So I think it's part of my DNA, to be completely honest with you.

[00:01:56] Around my family, my dad, my uncles, my mom, they were all in business.

[00:02:00] So our dinner table discussions were always around business.

[00:02:03] So I think I developed this flair for entrepreneurship really early on, and it's sort of all I knew.

[00:02:09] Growing up, I was fortunate enough to get involved in my family business from around 15 years old,

[00:02:14] really starting on the social media development of their business, which Archie's, my family business, took off really big around that time.

[00:02:20] So I was really lucky to be involved.

[00:02:23] But alongside that as well, I played sport growing up.

[00:02:26] I played football for Manchester City Ladies Football Club from around 10 years old.

[00:02:29] And I think that gives you a real competitive streak, team working, hard working, all the sort of qualities that you need to be an entrepreneur.

[00:02:39] Because, you know, as glamorous as it might seem to be an entrepreneur, it's really difficult at times.

[00:02:43] And sort of similar to when you're losing in a football match, you've got to dig deep, work hard as a team to grind out that result.

[00:02:49] So I guess my entrepreneurship journey was shaped from the early stages of being around my family's businesses.

[00:02:55] But then also on top of that, the competitiveness from the football side to me.

[00:03:00] As early as I knew, if anyone asked me what I'd want to be when I was older, start my own business.

[00:03:04] Didn't realize that was going to lead me to parcel delivery, but that's another story.

[00:03:08] But yeah, always start my own business.

[00:03:10] That was always answer.

[00:03:11] Never a doctor or anything else.

[00:03:13] It was just, yeah, start my business.

[00:03:15] That's so interesting and really inspiring as well.

[00:03:18] And so let's talk about parcels because you have quite a big mission, which is to decarbonize the logistics industry and at the same time to set a new standard for delivery quality.

[00:03:30] So can you talk us through this?

[00:03:32] How did you come up with the idea for Hived and how does it differentiate from other delivery companies?

[00:03:37] As I mentioned, I always want to start a company, but really I wanted to build a huge billion dollar company sort of to start taking playbook of the startups that you see in Silicon Valley, etc.

[00:03:46] And I wanted to apply that to whatever company that I built.

[00:03:50] So initially, me and my co-founder, Matthias, we both started a business that sold advertising space on delivery vans in London.

[00:03:58] We saw the rise of all these delivery vehicles and all the space that was associated with them.

[00:04:03] And we thought in a similar way that you could see advertising on taxis and tubes.

[00:04:07] Why don't we advertise on these white delivery vans?

[00:04:09] So we started that business and because of that business, we needed GPS data from where all the delivery vans were driving in central London.

[00:04:17] And we had access to thousands and thousands of delivery vehicle data.

[00:04:22] But we soon realized is, wow, this huge industry felt lacking of technology, lacked efficiency, and it felt ripe for destruction.

[00:04:31] And, you know, coupled with that parcel delivery has one of the lowest net promoter scores for any industry.

[00:04:36] If you rank here by, you know, recipient experience, consumers almost hate it worse than banking, which is quite a low bar.

[00:04:43] And so we set out this huge mission to, OK, this whole this whole legacy industry is very polluting.

[00:04:49] You know, they need to be decarbonized, but also it's just failing on the customer experience.

[00:04:53] And it's failing on the customer experience.

[00:04:55] That means also the retailers who use these service providers are not very happy.

[00:04:59] So we set out, hey, let's scrap the part of the advertising and let's build the logistics network for the 21st century,

[00:05:06] which is relentlessly focused on building best customer experience and for, you know, in turn keeping the retail partners happy.

[00:05:13] But also if you're building any business in the 21st century, sustainability has to be by default.

[00:05:19] It's not our USP.

[00:05:20] It's not an afterthought.

[00:05:21] It's just built into the entire business that we've built.

[00:05:24] And I think that's really important for anyone starting a company now is you have to think about that from a different mindset.

[00:05:30] If we're building businesses that are going to be here for hundreds and thousands of years, hopefully, you know, it has to be by default in sustainability practices.

[00:05:37] Yeah, it's not something that can be tacked on at the end, right?

[00:05:40] It's got to be baked into the business model.

[00:05:42] Let's talk a little bit more about the customer experience.

[00:05:45] You work with some major retailers and brands like ASOS, Uniqlo, Nespresso, Zara.

[00:05:50] When a customer places an order on one of these brand sites, they then get to the checkout.

[00:05:56] And what happens next?

[00:05:57] Will they see the Hived brand and have the option for green delivery?

[00:06:00] Or is this white labeled and everything's happening behind the scenes?

[00:06:04] Can you maybe just talk us through, you know, from a customer's experience, how it all works?

[00:06:08] Definitely. So from a customer experience, we don't want customers to force to choose a green delivery option.

[00:06:15] We want, like I said at the start, we want you to order the best delivery experience and so happens to be green.

[00:06:21] So let's take an example. If you're ordering from a brand like Nespresso, Hived will be the default delivery partner in the areas that we operate, which at the moment is just the greater London area.

[00:06:29] And so for the customer checkout, you're not, you know, feeling, oh, I'm choosing the green option.

[00:06:35] You're just choosing the best delivery experience, which is Hived default.

[00:06:38] And then from that moment onwards, from you ordering a parcel with Nespresso, Hived will then do your email communications, your actual physical delivery experience and that post email experience as well.

[00:06:49] So the whole journey from you ordering online to that physical touch point to your doorstep and afterwards, that's all Hived.

[00:06:56] And the customer gets notified within our emails, you know, this, by the way, this entire delivery was 100% electric from the retailer's warehouse to your doorstep.

[00:07:05] But it's not something that we shout about. It's not something that we scream about.

[00:07:10] What we're trying to scream about is, wow, that delivery experience was seamless.

[00:07:13] And also, you know, no news is good news in the delivery world. You just want it to work and seamless. And that's what we achieve.

[00:07:20] Your perspective then is that all deliveries should be sustainable and it shouldn't be down to the customer at the checkout to choose green delivery.

[00:07:29] It's just that everything should be green in theory.

[00:07:31] Yeah, I think if we actually want to adapt and change and decarbonize these legacy industries, it can't be up to the consumer.

[00:07:38] And that's we're not going to have mass adoption to change if the consumer has to change in the way they, you know, their habits, etc.

[00:07:45] It has to be from partners like Hived and the big brands like the Nespresso that we partner with to embody that change and just to make it default.

[00:07:52] So the customer doesn't actually realize like, oh, that was so nice.

[00:07:55] The delivery experience was seamless. Oh, I didn't even realize it was entirely electric because I think there's sometimes a notion in people's consumers mindset.

[00:08:02] So if it's green, I have to pay a premium or I have to change the way I do things.

[00:08:07] And that puts people off. And we say, hey, no, you know, you don't have to change anything you do, even for the retailer, you know, working with a new partner like Hived.

[00:08:15] They don't have to change their setup or anything.

[00:08:17] You know, we collect from their retailers warehouses up and down the country in a similar way that they're used to working with other providers.

[00:08:24] But instead of a diesel truck, it's actually an electric truck.

[00:08:28] So we're trying to build this company in a seamless experience way and that, you know, sustainability shouldn't be a changing habit for anyone.

[00:08:37] It's just a default.

[00:08:38] Yeah, because something I talk about a lot on the podcast is the intention behavior gap when it comes to sustainability.

[00:08:45] All consumers will say that they want green products or green delivery, but they won't all make the sacrifice.

[00:08:50] Right. So if it costs more or if it's less convenient, then a lot of customers just deprioritize it.

[00:08:55] So I think that's that's really interesting.

[00:08:58] And I agree that it does need to come from the retailer.

[00:09:02] And I think from a comms perspective, I personally feel that retailers can be doing more to shout about this and to make customers feel good about their purchases.

[00:09:11] And I guess I guess one other point here is that when you receive a parcel, it could be your very first physical interaction with a brand.

[00:09:19] So there is a lot weighing on that delivery experience as well.

[00:09:23] Exactly. And that's one of our main reasons why retail partners are actually choosing Hive, because, you know, maybe 10 years ago, the first interaction with a brand might have been in a physical store.

[00:09:33] However, that's shifted drastically online and COVID actually accelerated that.

[00:09:38] So previously, you know, when you were shopping in store, you'd have that great personalized experience, whether maybe you entered an espresso store and you got a free coffee experience and you saw all the beautiful capsules everywhere.

[00:09:48] We want to now bring that experience as close as possible to that physical touchpoint in delivery when that can be the first interaction that a recipient or a customer is having with that brand.

[00:09:57] And brands like Nespresso's or the Uniqlo's, they spend so much money on making sure their brand looks absolutely phenomenal, whether it's that digital experience or their brand and their marketing.

[00:10:07] And I think as a delivery company, we should be doing the same.

[00:10:09] And that's one of the core reasons what we've embedded from Hive from the beginning is making sure that our brand looks as great and feels as great from every moment that someone interacts with it, just like a great halo brand, like an espresso or an apple or something like that.

[00:10:24] Yeah, you've set me up nicely for my next question there, because I wanted to just briefly acknowledge all of the change that we've seen over the past decade.

[00:10:32] 10 years ago, just 12% of UK retail sales took place online.

[00:10:36] And today we know that it's closer to around 25 to 27%.

[00:10:40] As more spending shifts online, it puts more pressure on retailers to get products to customers in a way that is fast, frictionless and also reliable.

[00:10:51] So I'd love to get your thoughts on this, Merva.

[00:10:54] How have you seen customer expectations evolve and how is this driving change in the delivery industry?

[00:11:01] Yeah, I think you've just hit the nail on the head is sort of that seamless experience that customers are expecting.

[00:11:06] But if you look at the demographic and the age of consumers who are now shopping online, you're now tapping into that Gen Z audience quite strongly and that millennials.

[00:11:14] And this audience is digitally native.

[00:11:17] They're digital first.

[00:11:18] That's how they've grown up.

[00:11:19] That's how they interact their whole lives.

[00:11:21] And they're using these modern technologies, whether ordering food, whether they're communicating with their friends, whether they're ordering a taxi, everything they do is digitally first and native.

[00:11:31] And we felt that that was lacking in the point of delivery experience when they're actually ordering online, receiving that parcel.

[00:11:37] And so what I'm just trying to do is emulate that seamless digital native experience.

[00:11:43] Now bringing that parcel delivery where those recipients and consumers feel like they have trust and control of the choices that they're making.

[00:11:51] And that's, you know, they don't like to communicate, you know, as picking up the phone or even, you know, how they communicate with their friends is totally different.

[00:11:58] And so making that communication very transparent, very trustworthy and just giving up that reliability is really key for delivery experience in the first and foremost.

[00:12:08] But then secondly, it's that, I guess, that customization, that personalization, the ability to change and redirect their in-flight options.

[00:12:16] And so just making that in a way that, you know, fits this new generation of digitally native people.

[00:12:22] I look towards my nieces who are now 10 and 7 and I look at them and they're so fast with their iPads and technology.

[00:12:30] And I'm just thinking like when I was growing up, I didn't have that.

[00:12:33] I was, you know, the kind of technology wave hit me when I was 15.

[00:12:37] Luckily, I had the best of both worlds.

[00:12:39] But this generation is totally different.

[00:12:41] Everything they do is digital focus and we have to build that parcel delivery experience for that.

[00:12:45] And we're always keeping our eye on the ground of what these modern consumers want now.

[00:12:49] But it always comes back to that trust, reliability and understanding where their parcel is and having that freedom and flexibility to change their options if needed.

[00:12:58] Yeah, I have a 9 and an 11-year-old and the way that they engage with technology is just mind-blowing.

[00:13:04] My daughter doesn't even want toys for, well, she wants toys for Christmas, but she also very much wants Robux.

[00:13:10] And so much of their life is now online.

[00:13:15] I'm not going to tell you about the whole other story for another day because, you know, you want that healthy balance.

[00:13:19] But they are a digitally native generation.

[00:13:22] Whereas I am apparently a geriatric millennial and very much feeling nostalgic for the analog childhood that I had experienced.

[00:13:33] Anyway, let's talk about the final mile.

[00:13:37] We know that the final mile is the most expensive, trickiest, and I guess at least historically the most environmentally damaging part of the delivery process.

[00:13:48] I had Paul Wilkinson from Deliveroo on the podcast earlier this year, and he talked about the importance of density when it comes to the final mile.

[00:13:55] So I'd love to get your thoughts on this, on the importance of high-density urban areas.

[00:14:02] And I wonder how can we collectively as an industry tackle some of these inherent challenges?

[00:14:10] Yeah, so I actually listened to that podcast and it was great.

[00:14:14] Density is always really important for any type of delivery model, especially in urban areas.

[00:14:19] And because, you know, these urban areas are so densely populated.

[00:14:23] I mean, Greater London has one of the highest e-commerce penetration areas in actually Europe.

[00:14:29] It's sort of, you know, not far off, you know, larger size, equal sizes to the whole French market for parcel delivery.

[00:14:35] And that's just in Greater London.

[00:14:36] And so we think of density in a couple of ways.

[00:14:38] So firstly, density is extremely important, but it's slightly different because we're not an on-demand model.

[00:14:43] So we can actually know the day before, two days before, sometimes weeks out, actually what our forecasted number of parcels are going to be delivered in a certain day.

[00:14:52] And that goes back to making sure that our technology and our machine learning is accurately forecasting, you know, taking in sales forecasts, consumer spending, all sorts to understand how, okay, how many parcels are we going to expect in a month out when we can have really close.

[00:15:06] We're normally about 98% off a month in terms of our predicting analysis of how many parcels we're going to have in a day.

[00:15:13] That means that we're able to create, you know, more accurate clusters and more densely populated routes.

[00:15:18] What I do think is becoming increasingly important, I think there is way too many potentially delivery models and things going to homes, which could be aggregated together in some way.

[00:15:27] It seems like you're going, you know, sometimes even in my own fact, I'm guilty of that,

[00:15:30] where I'm receiving three or four different deliveries in a day from different delivery partners, which are all doing sort of in the final mile.

[00:15:37] And so I think in the future, there could be a world where actually that's aggregated together.

[00:15:41] And there's one actual, you know, player in the market that's actually, you know, giving everything to you at home, whether it's your groceries, your food and your delivery parcels.

[00:15:49] And so that, that for me seems, it just seems inefficient.

[00:15:52] And I look at the world in a lens of, okay, this doesn't make sense.

[00:15:56] It's inefficient.

[00:15:56] And I think that's one of the areas that I think we could look to collaborate a bit closer together with these different delivery partners.

[00:16:02] I guess, you know, everyone has a different niche in terms of sometimes I've seen you, you can get your laundry delivered, you can get your food delivered.

[00:16:08] Everything is more convenient.

[00:16:10] And is there a way in a world where actually we can aggregate those together?

[00:16:14] But yeah, density is really important for majority of business models.

[00:16:18] And so in the delivery space, but for us, we don't want to just be an urban player.

[00:16:23] Delivery, you know, deliveries are happening in rural areas into everywhere.

[00:16:26] And we want to be able to, you know, facilitate that model across the whole of the UK rather than just focusing on those urban areas.

[00:16:33] So do you think that more collaboration is needed?

[00:16:37] Yeah, for sure.

[00:16:38] Definitely.

[00:16:38] I mean, there is definitely avenues to operate.

[00:16:41] And we are actually speaking to a few of those partners.

[00:16:44] You know, can we actually collaborate together?

[00:16:45] There's so much data exchange.

[00:16:47] You know, there's some models that are not competitive with each other where, you know, we're actually building our own, you know, granular location of where actually, you know, because the final mile is, you know, is so different to the actual the last meter of the home.

[00:17:00] I live in London in quite a complex flat and apartment building.

[00:17:03] The delivery driver, you know, is quite inefficient sometimes when they can't actually get to my final location because, you know, it's actually down this pathway up these stairs around the corner.

[00:17:14] And that can be a bit complex.

[00:17:15] Can we share that knowledge institutionally to other delivery partners?

[00:17:18] Because, you know, that will enable them to be more efficient.

[00:17:21] So I definitely think there are lots of ways that we can collaborate.

[00:17:24] And, you know, we all have great ambitions and all these companies, you know, are huge in their own successes.

[00:17:29] But I think there's definitely an avenue to collaborate together and, you know, share that technology, that data infrastructure or actually work together on the delivery side.

[00:17:37] I thought it was interesting that you started out delivering by bike.

[00:17:41] And am I correct that you were actually doing some of the deliveries as well?

[00:17:45] Yeah.

[00:17:46] The first few thousand actually from my apartment.

[00:17:49] Wow.

[00:17:50] Wow.

[00:17:51] That's amazing.

[00:17:52] How was it?

[00:17:52] What was that experience like for you?

[00:17:54] Stressful.

[00:17:55] I mean, it was great.

[00:17:57] Yeah, both good and bad in a lot of ways.

[00:18:00] So I believe that in order to build the best parcels of experience, we had to put ourselves, me and my co-founder, in the hands of a delivery operator to understand the challenges they actually face on the road, to actually interact with the customers on the doorstep, to understand their pain points.

[00:18:14] So I think that's one of the main reasons why we were able to actually iterate and build at such an executing pace is because we had that knowledge of, well, these are actually the huge challenges that a delivery person feels.

[00:18:24] And this is actually the customer experience, the pain point.

[00:18:28] And still now, me and my co-founder often do deliveries quite often, you know, as sort of like, you know, once a month, I'll just get in my delivery vehicle and do a route myself.

[00:18:37] And I think that knowledge has been so instrumental for how we built Hive.

[00:18:41] And, yeah, we did start off in bikes and I started off in bikes and that was challenging in its own way.

[00:18:45] I mean, cycling in London is tricky.

[00:18:49] You know, I only actually started cycling in London in the pandemic because I felt like, OK, the roads are quiet.

[00:18:55] This is the best time for me to actually build that confidence to ride my bike in London.

[00:18:59] But it does come with its challenges.

[00:19:01] And we wanted to build a delivery model that didn't require a certain type of person.

[00:19:05] Because if you look at a lot of bike riders or cargo bike riders, they're not fitting the mold of the delivery drive for everyone.

[00:19:11] We want anyone to be able to ride and to deliveries.

[00:19:16] And even I felt uncomfortable sometimes riding a cargo bike in central London.

[00:19:20] And in order to actually build this at scale, we wanted to figure out, OK, we're not just doing the final, final mile here.

[00:19:26] We're doing actually from the retailer's warehouse right to the doorstep.

[00:19:29] And we're building a parcel delivery network that will end up in rural roads as well.

[00:19:34] So we have to be thinking about this in a mindset of how scale.

[00:19:38] What we have done is actually use smaller vehicles for more denser areas.

[00:19:42] That's something that we have done.

[00:19:43] And we've actually collaborated with a couple of delivery cargo providers in certain areas that are extremely congested

[00:19:49] and really small to actually utilize that network.

[00:19:52] So it goes back to your point of how can we collaborate with other partners.

[00:19:55] But yeah, it was an interesting experience.

[00:19:58] It taught me a lot.

[00:19:59] And I don't think Hyde would be in the position it is today if we weren't doing the first 2,000 deliveries ourselves.

[00:20:05] Yeah.

[00:20:06] I know a lot of retailers are now requiring their head office staff to actually spend time in the stores,

[00:20:13] stocking shelves, serving customers.

[00:20:15] It's so important that you don't lose that and that you break down those barriers.

[00:20:21] I do want to ask you another question about bike delivery, though, because I know there are a ton of benefits here.

[00:20:28] And that's not just around reducing air pollution, but also noise pollution in neighborhoods.

[00:20:32] And there's a lot that we could get into.

[00:20:34] But there are obvious limitations, physical constraints.

[00:20:37] We've seen retailers like Amazon, for example, commit to building more micro-fulfillment hubs, both in the UK and across Europe.

[00:20:45] So I've sort of been watching with fascination to see how this could develop.

[00:20:51] And what role could it play as part of the overall cracking the final mile puzzle?

[00:20:58] I just wonder if you can share any learnings, whether you see a place for bike delivery in the future,

[00:21:05] or do you think it will always remain quite a small part of the overall offering?

[00:21:09] I think it really depends on the demographic and the location and the actual physical geography of the area.

[00:21:15] I think in some places in the world, if you're in Sweden or the Nordics, the bike infrastructure is incredible and it's a lot better.

[00:21:23] So there's some areas where it really does work, where it's extremely congested and road closures, etc.

[00:21:29] I definitely do think there's a place for it there.

[00:21:32] But in some areas, and I think London is still lacking in that sense,

[00:21:36] in the actual infrastructure to enable this at mass market and also the production of these cargo bikes.

[00:21:41] I think there's, you know, in the delivery fleet space,

[00:21:44] there's tested and, you know, the supply chains are really robust and resilient

[00:21:48] and can actually keep up with the pace of, you know, growing delivery fleet like Hives,

[00:21:53] where we felt that when you were looking at the bicycle manufacturers,

[00:21:56] they weren't as mature and robust as their supply chains were as sort of the delivery space fleet,

[00:22:02] which for a huge business like, let's say, in Amazon, you know, they have to be able to rely.

[00:22:06] Can you actually comfortably provide, you know, thousands and thousands and thousands of production of these bikes monthly?

[00:22:11] That's a question to be, you know, to be seen.

[00:22:14] And also, I just think that, yeah, it goes back to the infrastructure in London.

[00:22:17] I mean, I'm terrified of riding a cargo bike in central London.

[00:22:20] So that means that your employment model is restricted in terms of which type of people you can actually employ to ride these bikes.

[00:22:26] And I look around and I look at majority of cargo bike riders and then, you know, they are a certain type of, you know,

[00:22:33] Yeah, and they have good leg power.

[00:22:35] And that doesn't happen to, you know, that's not everyone.

[00:22:38] And I looked at it from that perspective.

[00:22:40] You know, we at Hived have, you know, a lot of female delivery drivers, students, you know, part time,

[00:22:44] you know, people who work in bands, et cetera, it's open to everyone.

[00:22:47] And I think if you want to build a mass market delivery network where you're delivering millions and millions of parcels,

[00:22:52] you do need to be able to attract a great workforce.

[00:22:54] And I think you're very limited in the cargo bikes fit.

[00:22:57] But yeah, like I said, I do think it has its place in some urban areas, but you need to have the full network.

[00:23:04] And you can't, I don't think you can ever just rely on the cargo bikes.

[00:23:09] Yeah, without the infrastructure, it's a pretty big ask.

[00:23:11] I want to ask you about legislation, because when it comes to sustainability, businesses and consumers can only go so far.

[00:23:21] Are there any regulatory or policy changes that you'd like to see to support the growth of green delivery?

[00:23:27] I think that one of the key areas of the green delivery, what bottleneck we've actually faced,

[00:23:33] and a huge one that I would love to see a bit more legislation improvements.

[00:23:36] And I don't know if it won't come under legislation, but just more the fast charging network.

[00:23:41] The charging network across the UK has to be developed.

[00:23:45] And it's a bit of a chicken and egg problem in this case.

[00:23:48] But I know some of the biggest fleets that we are working with and speak to,

[00:23:53] one of their main limitations for actually growing a green fleet, whether it's actually delivery or whether you're using something else,

[00:23:58] is that infrastructure of charging and the unknown unknowns.

[00:24:02] And that can be quite scary investment for a company deploying millions and millions of pounds on a charging network

[00:24:11] that actually is not very mature.

[00:24:13] And the next technology of chargers might be out in the next two or three years, which completely replaces that.

[00:24:18] And we've seen a lot of big, I speak to a lot of big fleet operators,

[00:24:22] and I think a lot of them have made that mistake where they've invested in the wrong area of technology for chargers.

[00:24:27] And that's just changing rapidly.

[00:24:29] So I do think in terms of what the government can support is, you know, the UK power network

[00:24:34] and ensuring that we have enough power in the right places for mass adoption of electric vehicles and electric trucks,

[00:24:41] which is really, really challenging.

[00:24:44] And, you know, that for me is a really tricky area.

[00:24:47] I know we've spoken a lot about the middle mile, but that truck network is also just as important.

[00:24:52] Final question.

[00:24:53] Looking ahead to 2030, what are you most excited about when it comes to the decarbonization of retail and e-commerce?

[00:25:01] And what does this look like for Hived?

[00:25:04] What I'm most excited about, because I spend a lot of time with our big retail partners,

[00:25:08] and every single retail partner has a clear, you know, genuine interest to decarbonize.

[00:25:14] And that's something even I've seen from the start of Hived to now in the past four years,

[00:25:19] a huge dramatic shift where these big retailers are really, they're really well-knowledged,

[00:25:24] and they really want to make a difference and change everything in their supply chain to decarbonize because they have to.

[00:25:30] And that's not just some, you know, PR or greenwashing.

[00:25:33] I'm speaking with all these big retailers day in, day out, and I know it comes from a place of we want to do this.

[00:25:38] And what Hived has enabled a lot of these big retailers to do is help them on that way and, you know,

[00:25:44] cooperate and collaborate with them.

[00:25:46] And so you see a lot of different retail technologies coming out there now,

[00:25:49] whether it's sort of the carbon accounting, et cetera.

[00:25:52] And these technologies have been there maybe for a few years,

[00:25:55] but these big retailers are really now adapting them and actually putting them at scale.

[00:25:58] So I'm super excited because I speak to these retail partners every single day and I know how committed they are.

[00:26:04] So I know the future is bright.

[00:26:06] They're looking at everything.

[00:26:07] You know, these companies are huge and it takes a bit of time for them to understand what's going on and how to adapt and change.

[00:26:13] So I know like looking towards 2030, all the big retailers that we're working with,

[00:26:17] they have clear, you know, best interest to decarbonize everything from all angles.

[00:26:22] So huge opportunity for a lot of startups in the space to really adapt and work with these big retailers at some scale.

[00:26:27] By 2030, I hope that Hyped is delivering every single parcel, you know,

[00:26:31] completely emission free and provide the best delivery experience.

[00:26:34] And there's a real sentiment from the collaboration,

[00:26:36] cooperation from all these retail partners with startups,

[00:26:39] with new technologies to support and help them also decarbonize.

[00:26:48] Thank you for listening to Retail Disrupted.

[00:26:50] If you enjoyed this episode and would like to support the podcast,

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