Inside Direct Selling: Community, Trust and Social Commerce

[00:00:00] Retail Disrupted is proud to partner with AI and Retail 2026. Come join us on November 16th here in London, where you will hear firsthand from retailers on what it takes to scale AI, how to prepare for agente commerce and so much more. I'm going to be on stage hosting a panel about AI search and discovery. And I'm also going to be recording some episodes for the podcast. So if you are a retail leader, and you would like to join us at the event, or if you'd like to join us as a guest,

[00:00:30] on the show, you can use the discount code RD Podcast 20 for 20% off your ticket. That's RD Podcast 20. If I don't get something that's personalized now, the retailer is incredibly lazy. This is not something unique. So now we have to build a community because when everybody has access to the same AI and the same ability to make adverts like that for free, nothing sets anybody apart.

[00:00:59] So the only thing that sets an individual apart is the community, their belief system, their trust, their ethos, and all of that. So if you can't encapsulate that, you are just another noise in another store, aren't you? So I think community commerce will become, I think, the most underestimated growth channel that people will suddenly say, oh, we should have done that. We should have really built our tribe, as it were, and go forward.

[00:01:23] And you look at the power of football, you look at the power of sport, and people coming together under one eco-belief system. That's where I think the innovation is going to really shine through. So that you never miss an episode.

[00:01:53] Today, I'm delighted to be joined by Susanna Schofield, OBE. Susanna is the Director General of the Direct Selling Association, which is the industry body for direct-to-consumer retail in the UK. Before the DSA, Susanna spent 18 years at Royal Mail, where she held the board-level role of Commercial and Innovation Director. She's a passionate advocate for women and young people in business.

[00:02:16] And as such, Susanna was awarded an OBE for her work in this area in the 2015 Queen's Honors List. She's also a published author, a university lecturer, and she has served as an advisor to the Department for Business Innovation and Skills. Susanna, welcome to the podcast. Thank you, Natalie. Thank you very much indeed. Indeed. So, Susanna, I guess just to get us started, can you tell us more about the DSA and the kind of work that you do?

[00:02:45] Absolutely. Whenever you walk into a room, people cower away because it's that moment, isn't it? Oh, it's regulatory. But essentially, we're a 60-year-old not-for-profit association that looks after the direct-to-consumer retail sector. So anybody selling direct-to-consumer, whether it's through a traditional kind of the Tupperware party plan model that people recognize or Avon, or whether it's slightly more innovative through affiliates and that level, we essentially make sure that the code of conduct is abided by.

[00:03:11] So it protects the consumer, it protects the consultant working within that organization, and it protects, makes sure that the products are absolutely fit for purpose and, you know, approved and legal. So we make sure that everything, it's kind of like the green track or the red tractor on your meat, as it were. So I think it's very important that, you know, when anybody gets involved in a direct-to-consumer company, that they are a member of the association just because it's self-regulated. We're working hard behind the scenes to make it not a nice-to-have but a must-have with the government at the moment

[00:03:39] because I think it's one of those things that it's very nice to be able to say, this is a regulated industry and therefore it just makes sure that everything is above board. Yeah, and there's just been so much change when it comes to direct-to-consumer. I know you mentioned Avon. I think immediately when we hear direct-to-selling, I think we do tend to think of those brands, you know, Tupperware, Avon. But obviously so much has changed. So I guess an initial question for you is how would you define direct-selling today?

[00:04:05] Well, I think it's really innovative and I think it's strange because in a world now where retail is going to change so, so much, I mean, for me, I read two things yesterday that absolutely blew my mind. And one of them is, we're just both in the, you know, kind of job board thing. And PayPal is recruiting a CEO, paying a quarter of a million dollars a year, so it's not a bad salary. But their job is to make their CEO look more human online. And that amazes me. That's an incredible, but also OpenAI are placing a job for a content strategist.

[00:04:34] So the most advanced AI global company on earth is paying a human to make their content. And I think that really ties in with what retail is and what direct-to-consumer is because people have lost their faith and trust. We used to run a retail industry built on going out and shopping. Then COVID hit and we kind of lost that retail therapy moment, didn't we? Because we had to all buy online. Then it became about ease. And now I think people now, strangely, they don't want retail to come from AI alone.

[00:05:04] They want that interaction. And I believe that this is where direct-to-consumer really sits because nothing cuts through all the noise than someone you know and trust handing you a product and saying, try this, it's really good. So I think we're seeing at the moment many bigger brands coming into this space and saying, we need to be able to talk direct to our customers because we're losing the level of trust that we have. And I think we've made shopping completely frictionless, but now we need to make it meaningful. And if we don't, we're going to start losing.

[00:05:32] It's just going to become purely transactional. I think that's a scary place for retail because it just becomes about numbers. That's so interesting about PayPal. I didn't know that. And I think you're right. I think it shows that as we move towards this more digital world, I think it actually reinforces the need for human-like connection, right? It's a kind of what AI can't do or what tech can't do. I think we're starting to see more and more of that. So super interesting. We are going to come back to trust because that's a huge topic within retail, within direct selling.

[00:06:00] And you've already touched on AI and we'll come on to social commerce as well, because I think that's something that I'm hearing more and more on the podcast. So I definitely want to come back to you on that. But first, tell us a little bit about your members, because one thing I found interesting was that they are overwhelmingly female. I think it was 93% of your members are female. Absolutely. We have two kind of hats that we wear. So our member companies are the companies that choose to join the Direct Selling Association. And then their consultants, or we call them independent sellers, and probably about 93% of women.

[00:06:30] I think it's slightly on the decrease we have more men coming in, but it all depends on the products that our member companies sell. So when we look after the health and well-being industry, we're now seeing a lot of young men who are part of the fitness program, who are maybe personal trainers, who are taking on a product that they feel passionate about, that they're selling and setting up their own business and being entrepreneurial through that way. So we are seeing an increase in men. But I think traditionally, it's been more along that kind of side hustle, people adding to their income.

[00:06:58] You know, most people in the industry earn about £400 a month. So it's not life-changing money. But actually, it's nice. You know, it pays for the summer holiday. It pays for the weekend trips out. It gives people enough income. But it's completely flexible and around the hours they want to work. So I think that's where it's become so important. And I think, you know, we can either look at it strategically and that kind of moment of why is direct consumer going to become so, so prevalent moving forward?

[00:07:23] Or we can look at it from a tactical basis of what it actually puts in people's pockets and how it helps people start their own business and be innovative. Yeah. And I guess if we kind of dig into social commerce in a little bit more detail, because I think this is one of the most fascinating shifts that we've seen within retail, is this proliferation of channels within e-commerce. So I think for a long time, we accepted there were a lot of different channels, different shopping missions within physical retail. But within e-commerce, it's sort of all bundled together under online shopping.

[00:07:51] And there's just been such an explosion of choice for the customer. And I think as we look to the future with AI, that's only going to accelerate. But if we just hone in on social commerce, because for me, this feels like the biggest sort of disruptive force that we've seen in terms of how we discover products, how we buy products. And you also kind of have this entrepreneurship. You've got the side hustle economy. You've got independent earning influencers. There's this kind of convergence happening. And I'd love to get your thoughts on these structural shifts and how it's impacting direct selling.

[00:08:18] Well, it's really interesting because I think algorithms are going to be great. You know, they recommend products. That's fine. But actually, only people can recommend them with credibility. And for me, sitting back, it's been fascinating watching the rise of the influencer. So these people who are, you know, they're going out and saying, you have to use these products. But then over time, the consumer kind of got a bit savvy to it and said, actually, do you know what? This isn't genuine. You're being paid to like this. So in a world literally drowning with advertising, as you say, there are so many channels.

[00:08:47] It's we don't have to pull data in anymore. We have it gets pushed at us all the time, all the time. So I think in a world drowning with advertising, personal recommendation comes an absolute premium. And that is just a golden nugget for the direct consumer industry because, you know, we're having a conversation now. We can go back and forth. And that's very different from just a random recommendation coming in. Is it real? Isn't it real? And, you know, Zip will touch on trust later. But the whole thing is wrapped up on that consumers don't just buy products anymore.

[00:09:16] I believe they truly buy confidence. And I think we're seeing more and more people retreat from that. And I was laughing yesterday saying, you know, I used to love the wild nature little memes that would come up, you know, the lioness batting, the tiger and all of it. But now you don't know whether it's real or not. So much of it's AI and artificially, you know, unless you can actually know, it kind of takes away that isn't that amazing and makes it more just mundane. So now I scroll through.

[00:09:42] So that tiny little joy of watching wildlife in your phone has kind of gone. And I think we're seeing a huge amount of empathy in that way. I think people are they don't want to see it. They want reality. They want to come back to feeling that confidence. And I think, you know, it's why we're so important is that good regulation allows the consumer to have confidence and embrace it, knowing that our members are regulated, knowing that the products are real, knowing they can buy with safety. And I think that's where this all fits together so importantly.

[00:10:10] But yeah, we've, as I say, we've retail spent years and years chasing convenience. But customers want connection now. They really do. It's going to be a really interesting shift as to how all this plays out. It is. And it feels like it's happening almost in real time. Like the topic of trust comes up in so many retail conversations that I'm having. And my view is that AI and I think some aspects of social media are accelerating this erosion of trust. Not all. I think it's really nuanced. And maybe we can come back to that.

[00:10:37] I think some of it is purely is that retail, you know, is moving faster in the retail world than policy is keeping up with it. And that becomes a dangerous place, isn't it? Because when retail does move faster than policy and you can't look after it and protect it, then it becomes a very innovative, yet sometimes a complex situation. Yeah, exactly. And I think, I mean, just looking at AI, I mean, as an analyst, it's fascinating. But it's also very hard to predict sort of what's hype, what's going to stick. And also from a retail perspective, there's so much experimentation.

[00:11:06] And retailers are generally, I think, a lot more willing to take a chance and fail fast than they were just 5, 10 years ago. So it does feel a little bit overwhelming at times. To go back to the topic of trust, I do feel like as consumers, and I'm generalizing a little bit here, but I feel like we don't really trust what brands say about themselves. But to your point, we do trust other people. And I think that's why the social media angle is nuanced.

[00:11:32] And, you know, it is murky, as you say, you know, paid partnerships and affiliate links and, you know, what's being promoted or what, how is this a case of you being sold to? Or is this a genuine recommendation or validation of a product? I think it is all a little bit murky. But I'd just love to get your take on this. So what kind of shifts are you seeing when it comes to consumer trust? I think now, interestingly, is that the kind of next generation of retailers and some of our innovative and the Direct Selling Association, we have worked so hard to create what we're about to launch.

[00:12:02] And we're partnering with the government and we're launching an entrepreneurial program for young people. So 16 to 25, not in employment, not in education. How can they come and do a training course to kind of equip them for future job earnings? And even if they don't come into the industry, we've given them some help as to whether they how they set up a business, a micro business, how they would manage it, their tax and all the bits. But where it's really interesting is talking to these young people. They're not going to open another shop. They're not.

[00:12:31] What they're going to do is they're going to build a community. And that is a really different mindset as to where the consumer is now going, because a shop face is a shop front, but it's not talking to me. And we saw a couple of years ago, I was preaching about personalization, how important it is. If I don't get something that's personalized now, the retailer is incredibly lazy. This is not something unique. So now we have to build a community because when everybody has access to the same AI and the same ability to make adverts like that for free, nothing sets anybody apart.

[00:13:01] So the only thing that sets an individual apart is the community, their belief system, their trust, their ethos and all of that. So if you can't encapsulate that, you are just another noise in another store, aren't you? So I think it's going to be community commerce will become, I think, the most underestimated growth channel that people will suddenly say, oh, we should have done that. We should have really built our tribe, as it were, and go forward.

[00:13:27] And you look at the power of football, you look at the power of sport and people coming together under one eco belief system. That's where I think the innovation is going to really shine through. Yeah, it's such a good point. I feel like in some ways distrust in brands, you know, I think in some ways it can actually be, I guess, good news for social commerce and direct selling more generally.

[00:13:47] Because if there is that creator that you follow who has built up trust with you and the rest of the community, if they feel authentic and relatable, then surely that's just going to collapse the funnel. So you've got discovery, consideration, validation, all of those things are happening in a single moment. And I think, to your point, you know, in this world of AI and, you know, skepticism and misinformation and hallucination and all the other kind of things that we're having to wade through as consumers working out what's AI generated, what's not. And I know there is regulation coming in.

[00:14:16] So we are moving in the right direction. But what's your take? I mean, I feel like that's actually gonna be a positive for direct selling. I think so as well. Definitely, definitely. And I think it's going to be fascinating to watch it all unfold. And we are talking now to some very large companies who manufacture some very, very high-end products that are now saying, right, we don't need a showroom. We're speaking to a car company at the moment. Actually, we don't need a showroom anymore. We can drive the car that the customer's thinking about to their front door. We can sit with them with a laptop. We can configure it all on our configurator.

[00:14:44] We go away and build it and then we drive it to their front door. Because there's then trust. There's moments you understand it. You've got your own car broker coming through the door. And I think all of that just ties into that belief system, that moment of, you know. So I think the cheaper end of the market, like your TikTok shop and the rest of it, is great. But coming back to yourself, the sales funnel is broken for the next generation 100%. Because, you know, I worked at Royal Mail as their commercial director. So it came in, wasn't it? A suspect, prospect. And you filtered it all through.

[00:15:12] And your whole Pareto 80-20 of your client base. And that is out of the window now. None of that is. Because the next generation don't look at the funnel. They don't move down the sales channel as we expect them to. They look at something on TikTok shop. They see something on Instagram. Someone sends them a reel about something. They go in to do some research in somewhere. And all of this funnels to them making a decision. But they might research it on different platforms, with different clients, with different shops, with different...

[00:15:37] So by the time they buy from you, you really can't tell where they came from unless they become loyal. Which is why I think that play into one-on-one relationships, communities. That's going to become where people can build businesses much, much quicker. Because otherwise, as I say, the good old traditional sales funnel now. You know, I've got a 16 and an 18-year-old. And if I told them this is how they buy it, they'd just laugh at me and say, no, we don't, mum. And they're right. We don't. And it fascinates me. We go to Sephora. And they'll look at all the makeup and all the bits. And they'll smell it. And they'll sniff it. And then I'll say, so what are you buying?

[00:16:07] And they'll say, nothing. We'll order it all. And we'll have it delivered to home. Because they want to go touch it, feel it. But actually, they don't want to walk around with it. So they'll go and do it online. And that, for me, I'm, well, you're here now. Get it now. Why would you not just do that? But it's just a different way of working. And they'll put it to their friends. Oh, I saw this. It looked OK. What do you think? So this validation, this kind of support system around retail now just makes a huge step change. Yeah. Oh, God. It's just so true, isn't it? The next generation. Mine are a little bit younger. But 11 and 13.

[00:16:35] And the way that they shop and the way they discover brands is just so different. And, yeah, I think as retailers, you've got to follow the customer. You've got to be where the customer is. And I've had lots of the big platforms on the podcast. I've had actually just last week, I was at a TikTok event in Covent Garden. There's an article on the BBC about it today. And that episode will be out soon. But I've had WhatNot on the podcast, the live selling platform. I've had Snapchat.

[00:17:03] So Snapchat said that 90% of Gen Z are now using Snapchat. So you can think from a retailer perspective, you've got to be on these platforms. You've got to be engaging with your customers because, you know, TikTok isn't just dancing cat videos anymore, right? No, it's not. It's really not. And it's interesting you mentioned Snapchat because I can't, if I WhatsApp my girls, nothing. So I have a Snapchat account and I speak to them on it. They're the only two I speak to on it. But we have now, I've got in this moment, because I have a streak of over a thousand days with my eldest.

[00:17:31] So now I have to keep it going because it's almost, I'm 50, Natalie. I'm 50 years old. And I find myself going, don't break the streak. We've got a warning not to break the streak. And it's ridiculous. But actually, when I'm not with them, I'm away working. There's something really nice about them just sending me a random picture of what they're doing. And the more I've got into it, the more I've started to see that this is a really lovely tool to communicate without words and without, because I've always said, can you imagine a world where the telephone came after text messages? It would be revolutionary, wouldn't it?

[00:17:58] Because rather than spending ages typing, you could pick the phone up, do it two ways, hear someone's intimation in their voice, know what they meant, get the answer right there. And then it would be revolutionary. But for some reason, because it was the other way around, we went, messaging's much better. And for years, all we did was do this and then wait for the reply when we could have just picked up the phone. But I think now you're seeing that next bit. You know, interestingly, my girls from way back, I've insisted they use the phone. If they want to eat at a particular restaurant, you ring it, you book it and we'll go.

[00:18:26] Because otherwise, I think people are shying away from it. And I remember working with someone who came in my last business and they just wouldn't answer the phone and wouldn't pick it up. They were like, I can't. I don't know what to say. I can't do. And you think that's a whole generation of people that shy away from face-to-face communication. And that in the retail world is a terrifying thing, isn't it? Because it's always been about the interaction and the transaction that makes retail so special. In fact, I had a previous guest on talking about customer experience. It was Peter Cross.

[00:18:55] I'm not sure if you know Peter Cross. Yes, I do. I do. I certainly know of him. Yeah, absolutely. But his point was that it's become way too automated. And actually, sometimes, especially when there's a problem, people want to speak. I do sometimes feel like we've maybe gone a little bit too far with automating and tech and AI agents. I think technology is brilliant when it comes for transactional things. Absolutely upscale your business for transactions. But as you say, I never thought I'd say I missed the time of hearing a recorded voice saying, please hold, your call is important to us.

[00:19:25] I would love a telephone number now. I really would. And I actually bank with American Express purely because they have a face-to-face thing. So I've actually actively chosen to pay for a card that I can ring somebody if something goes wrong and say, can you help me sort this? Because I don't press one for this, press nine for this, key in your code, do your automation, and then you can't sort it. Go onto our chat and do it. It's just like, oh my gosh, I just need somebody to help me sort this out now. So it's going to be interesting. But I think we will see a backlash. I think there will be that moment where people say, I genuinely want to see people face-to-face,

[00:19:54] which is why I think the direct-to-consumer world has been tough. Retail has been a hard sector over the last couple of years. But we are seeing companies coming back into growth now. And we are seeing companies expand into that direct-to-consumer space. And I think that's purely around people understanding the importance of people to people. And something I wanted to ask you about was live shopping, because I think that's another interesting angle here. And in fact, that article I was just referencing from the BBC today, they talked about it was the same event that I was at. And there was live selling in action.

[00:20:22] I think it was about, I don't know, 25, 30 sellers in Covent Garden, all doing their thing. Everyone from a halal butcher to a vegetable box to eyelash, you know, beauty brands. So it was like a real random mix of creators. And I just think it's a really interesting way to, again, to your point around authenticity and connecting. So what's your take on live shopping and how you see that going? Well, I have a really interesting thing on this, because it's not new at all, is it? It's not. Because ultimately, QVC have existed for decades and decades.

[00:20:52] And it's really just bringing that back around, but with slightly more authenticity. So rather than having the person there presenting everything from a pair of six-pack socks right the way through to a diamondique, whatever it is, you know, fake bit of jewelry, you're now doing what you're doing with passion. But actually, that buy online, that real quick interaction has been around for a very, very long time. But I love now that people can bring it with the authenticity. And I think that touches on the whole people by people. I don't want someone telling me why they like it unless I really believe they like it and

[00:21:22] wrapped up in the trust, wrapped up in the whole authenticity and ethical behavior. And I think that's going to become more prevalent as we move. So that, you know, as you say, like a garden box, I've grown these vegetables, you should do this or make this food with it, make that. People can buy into it. And I think because we have such short attention spans, we did a piece of research recently, about three years ago, in the scrolling time, you had 13 seconds to look at something before it was gone. That was down to seven last year. It's down to three seconds now. So one, two, three, gone.

[00:21:51] One, two, three, gone. And we know it in ourselves, we do it. And if the image of the still real doesn't appeal to you, you're not watching it irrelevant of who's posting it because there's just so much. So if you know and love your local, you know, halal, your local butcher, your whatever it is, if you trust them and you see it, you're more likely to interact with it. So I think it's brilliant and I think we can use it. But ultimately, it's not new, is it? I remember my grandma watching QVC. I know it is. It is interesting.

[00:22:20] I actually spoke to The Telegraph recently about QVC and how it's kind of adapting in this TikTok era. But I do feel like, in fact, QVC is now on TikTok. So I think that kind of says it all, right? Absolutely. Short bite-sized presentations. Exactly. And I completely relate to your point because I've had to learn so much about YouTube. But at the start of the year, I kind of moved the podcast into video, which was a whole new world and certainly been a steep learning curve. But again, with shorts, you can have an amazing clip.

[00:22:50] But if you don't have a strong hook within the first couple of seconds, that's it. It doesn't get seen. So it's ruthless out there. It is. It is ruthless out there. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that comes all the whole full sector down, doesn't it? All the whole full circle around in the fact that we have to train our children. We have to train our youngsters now in entrepreneurship because it is ruthless out there. And it's a brutal, whether it's retail or whatever, I think we need to equip them because

[00:23:16] in my humble opinion, the biggest skills gap in Britain isn't lack of digital skills. It's a lack of entrepreneurial confidence. Because my kids absolutely know how to pick up a phone and do anything, but they don't have the confidence to set up a business. And when you see, you know, the government's introducing even having to do tax in micro businesses, this can have a real knock on effect to people thinking, oh, it's just too much to get involved. I don't know how to. I don't know what steps to take. I don't want to do anything wrong. And you go onto the government website.

[00:23:44] And of course, they have to put all of the information up there. But it's terrifying. As a woman who's run a business for years and years, it is terrifying now what they're telling you. If you get this wrong, this could be fine. But it's just enough to make you go, no, no, no, it's too much. So I think we have to have a genuine conversation about how we inspire people to be better and more prepared to go out and keep the retail world moving forward rather than just saying, oh, no, it's a big shop or don't do anything. And I think we have to be really careful as a country not to stifle that entrepreneurial shit.

[00:24:12] I was actually going to ask you about that because I know the barriers are so low when it comes to setting up a brand, setting up a business in terms of being able to get onto TikTok or Instagram and just set up shop. But there's obviously then the challenge of doing the thing and ticking all the boxes. So I guess, are there any other challenges or things that sellers should be aware of when starting out? Well, I think what's great about direct selling is you can join a member company and they do all of the fulfillment for you. So you literally, the only thing I think you have to be as passionate about the product.

[00:24:42] If you don't love what you're selling and you wouldn't buy it yourself, don't try and sell it to somebody else because it comes across as insincere. But if you love, you know, let's take, we have a company, Salad Master, that was with us and they sell a beautiful cookware. And there's lots of people that go out there and they, you know, they do their cooking shows from their kitchen and they show you how everything is used and they piece it all together and then they sell it. But once they sell it to somebody, that is then picked and packed and delivered straight from Salad Master. So they're using them as a kind of transactional owned business owner, but without having to buy huge amounts of stock, invest lots of money.

[00:25:11] So really it's a small franchise, but without having to get bricks and mortar, leaflets printed, all the branding, it's all done for you. And you sit comfortably under the umbrella of a very secure, very large business. And I, I like that. I think that's a really good way of getting started. So I think direct selling has its absolute moment. When we get slightly more into the wider direct to consumer, then there are the implications of potentially having to create your own brand and set your own company up. And then you've got to pay your taxes and all the other bits and pieces that come with it.

[00:25:40] I think that then needs a slightly more guiding hand, but you can go from one to the other quite seamlessly and quite quickly. And we have some lovely stories of people that have joined the direct selling world, done some great things in it, but then had the confidence to go and set themselves up a coffee shop down the road and do what they've always wanted to do. But because they've got the skills coming along the journey. And I think the lovely thing about all of our members is they all for free give their consultants, full training, full confidence, full ability to present, ability to run social media.

[00:26:10] All of that is just thrown in and no one joins the industry and doesn't leave better educated, which I think is a lovely, lovely piece, you know, along with all the philanthropy and all the other things they do. That educational piece, I think is just brilliant for anyone who wants to, wants to be a bit more entrepreneurial. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Now, Susanna, before we close, I'd love to get your thoughts on the future. And I know this is a really difficult thing to ask because as we said, there's so much

[00:26:36] change, so much change in the industry and there's so much change around how consumers are discovering and buying products. I am going to ask you anyway. Please do, please do. I'll do my best. Okay. Yeah. How do you see direct selling evolving over the next few years? I think, I think probably for me, as I said, touched on earlier, I think the future of retail isn't about choosing between stores, websites or social media. It's about whether trust exists and then commerce flows.

[00:27:03] And I think that will absolutely step into the world of direct selling and direct consumer because we are going to need to know that what you're telling me about that product, I genuinely trust and believe. And I genuinely trust and believe that because I trust and believe in you. So I think we're going to have to, as we say, technology can create transactions. People create loyalty. And retailers that genuinely understand the difference, I think, will win and will pull forward. So it's going to be about creating communities. Nobody creates community better than direct selling. So let's just hope, what is that they say?

[00:27:33] The future's bright. Fantastic. Susanna, it's been such a pleasure having you on the show. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you for having me. Thank you for listening to Retail Disrupted. If you enjoyed this episode and would like to support the podcast, please leave a rating or review or share it with others. It really makes a difference. Peace. Peace. Peace.