Retail's Tech Problem Isn't Invention. It's Mastery.

[00:00:00] Agents in and of themselves are still at such a nascent stage that we haven't got the protocols, the standards, the guardrails, the playbooks in place in terms of how that handoff is going to work. I know Google is trying to reassure retailers that you will always be the merchant of record right now because they haven't got the guardrails to assure that an agent isn't going to sign you up 50 times for a loyalty card to get you 5% off times 50 so that you can buy that product for free.

[00:00:30] They're still handing the transaction back to the retailer so you will be handed back to the retailer site which right now is pleasing retailers. They're quite reassured to hear that. They do definitely have to get ready for that eventuality. You've got to be where the customer is. That's what Omnichannel is, right? Love it or hate it is a word. It's being not everywhere but where your customer expects you to be.

[00:00:52] You're listening to Retail Disrupted, a podcast that explores the latest industry developments and the trends that will shape how we shop in the future. I'm your host, Natalie Berg.

[00:01:20] Welcome to Retail Disrupted, a podcast that explores the biggest trends shaping the future of retail. Today's episode officially kicks off our Shop Talk series. I was on the ground in Barcelona last week speaking to retail leaders and fellow industry experts. I have so much content heading your way. I recorded eight episodes over two days which was intense but amazing and so much fun and I can't wait to share these with you.

[00:01:50] I'm also going to be speaking to the CEO of The Body Shop. We are recording this week and that episode will be out in July. So if you don't already subscribe to the podcast, now is a good time to do so. And I should also call out that we are really focusing our energy on YouTube. My editor keeps telling me I need to be more explicit about letting all of you know. I know most of you still listen to the podcast through Apple and Spotify and other audio platforms.

[00:02:19] I know most of you are very busy so you tend to multitask and listen to the show as you're doing things. So I don't want to change your habits. If that's working for you, please continue to do so. That's personally how I consume podcasts. However, I know that the way that things are moving for podcasting is video. So we are going big on YouTube.

[00:02:40] Every week we're releasing the video version of the podcast and you'll also find clips and sound bites from the podcast. So I'd love for you to join us. You can head over to the Retail Disrupted YouTube channel and hit that subscribe button. Now my guest today needs no introduction. Maya Knights is the publisher of Retail Technology Magazine. She and I wrote a book about Amazon together.

[00:03:06] She is a friend of the pod and she has just written a new book, which is coming out this September. It's called The Future of Shopping, Using Digital, Data and AI to Win with Customers. There's a link to it in the show notes. So make sure you pre-order your copy. And in the meantime, I hope you enjoy my episode with Maya. Maya, welcome back to the podcast.

[00:03:34] It's great to see you as always. And I know it's been a little while since we last caught up, but I know in that time you have written another book. I know. Thank you so much for having me back on that. I know that we are co-authors, so we always watch each other's backs. But being able to just share the news today. Went live on LinkedIn about an hour ago. I thought Shop Talk Europe would be the best place to kind of make a bit of a splash about it.

[00:04:00] The book is by our fellow publisher, Kogan Page. Thank you, Kogan Page. Great team there. Called Future of Shopping, How to Use Digital Data and AI to Win with Customers. Big, big subject. My name is the only one on the byline this time, so I'm slightly terrified, but very, very excited about it. So, let's talk about tech because you are, of course, my go-to retail techie.

[00:04:26] And I'd love to know, I think one of the things that you do so brilliantly, Maya, is that you will just cut through the noise and tell us that's hype, that's happening. So, I guess just to start us off, I'm sure a lot of retailers tuning in today would love to get your take on this. What technology out there are you genuinely excited about? Like, what's actually going to make a difference to the future of retail? Ooh, do you know what? I think, I hate to give you a bit of a bland answer, but there are no new technologies that are out there.

[00:04:53] I think most of the foundational technologies that retailers have to master are already in the wild. But the level at which they are learning to master them, the speed, does need to accelerate. You can really tell that you've got some fast innovators, some fast followers and some laggards. Obviously, the big, the hottest topic is still AI. On top of that, it's agentic.

[00:05:22] In terms of cutting through the noise on that front, I do like the fact that at ShopTalk Europe this week, we've been talking about product discovery. And, you know, the way that we as consumers discover products is the thing that's changed most radically over the last 30 years.

[00:05:44] And when it comes to checking out through answer engines like ChatGPT or Gemini, we're not there yet. We really aren't there yet. Google's UCP is coming out pretty soon, but you have to be of a certain size with a certain amount of clout to be able to get in there on the ground floor with that.

[00:06:04] I think most retailers here will be more concerned about how much traffic is coming to them from LLMs, whether they're getting visibility of who those customers are, and what kind of face they're presenting to consumers through those answer engines. How to win the search box, right? With AI, I think the big thing here is that consumers are driving a lot of the change, right? Yeah. And we're all using these tools that you just mentioned, ChatGPT, Gemini.

[00:06:30] And so retailers have to keep up because, you know, at the end of the day, as a retailer, you have to follow the customer, right? Like that's the number one rule. It feels like if we're already discovering products inside ChatGPT, for example, then it's a logical next step to just buy inside. Is that not? What's your take? Yes, but I think it's a really good indicator of where we are from a tech innovation standpoint.

[00:06:55] And when it comes to, I think agents in and of themselves are still at such a nascent stage that we haven't got the protocols, the standards, the guardrails, the playbooks in place in terms of how that handoff is going to work. I know Google is trying to reassure retailers that you will always be the merchant of record.

[00:07:18] But whether or not you actually put your credit card details or the answer engine has your credit card details or you are handed off to the retailer right now, because they haven't got the guardrails to assure that an agent isn't going to sign you up 50 times for a loyalty card to get you 5% off times 50 so that you can buy that product for free. They're still handing the transaction back to the retailer. So you will be handed back to the retailer site, which right now is something pleasing retailers.

[00:07:48] They're quite reassured to hear that. They do definitely have to get ready for that eventuality. I actually was on a call, a customer experience call with a bunch of retailers last week. And one actually said, what if we all just bunch together and refuse? And I had to remind them 25 years ago, you were throttling mobile signals in stores. What? This is the direction of travel.

[00:08:15] As you rightly say, consumers are voting with their feet. You've got to follow them. You've got to be where the customer is. That's what Omnichannel is, right? Love it or hate it as a word. It's being not everywhere, but where your customer expects you to be. And as a result, there is no fighting this. You can't beat it. You've got to join them. But the really reassuring thing that I'm trying to impress upon retailers is get the basics right. Do what you do really well. Make sure your content is up to date.

[00:08:44] Make sure your store information is up to date. Make sure your opening hours are up to date. All of these things are so important. I was hearing from a brand that when they did an LLM content audit, they actually found the LLMs were scraping their corporate site quite heavily for who the retailer is, who the brand is, what they represent from a proposition perspective. So it's not just the PDPs. It's not just the promotion. It's everything.

[00:09:13] Your entire digital presence and face to the world. Get that in the right order. And you're more likely to win that answer engine search. Yeah. I can just, you know, as a retailer, it must be so hard to get your head around all of this stuff because there's so much change, so much disruption. And I think when it comes to agentic, it still feels a bit futuristic and maybe a little bit dystopian for a lot of retailers who, let's face it, are busy firefighting. Right? It's a difficult climate. You've got changing customer expectations. You've got technology that's just moving so quickly.

[00:09:44] Cost headwinds. I mean, you name it. Retailers are still, like, putting out fires. But I don't have much sympathy for retailers, I'm afraid. We're all in the same world. We're all trying to keep up. You're getting used to your podcast equipment. I'm getting used to using generative AI systems as well in my work as a publisher. I talk about needs, missions, and journeys. Right? What matters in retail has not changed. We still need stuff.

[00:10:12] We form a mission and then go on that journey to fulfill the need. And retailers are still merchant curators. It's how they communicate that expertise to their customers. And if you always bring it right back to basics, I would suggest, does this technology help me sense and respond to consumers' needs better?

[00:10:36] Does it help me guide their missions, inform them, influence their missions to come via me? And then on the journey, how can I facilitate that journey? Is it convenience and speed? Is that the most important thing? Or maybe it's more of a human touch when you're thinking about luxury or higher price point, higher value, low volume type of products.

[00:10:57] So knowing who you are, knowing that you're high value, low volume, high volume, low value, as in grocery, or high value, low volume, as in luxury, kind of sets the, you know, puts you on a spectrum. I would say grocers, their margins are really thin. So they need self-service. They need to double down on digital.

[00:11:18] I mean, anybody that was at NRF earlier this year, seeing LVMH talk about quiet tech, they're no less using the tech, but they're using it in the background to empower their staff. So it's a matter of knowing your own business and your own customers and knowing, therefore, where to put the investment. If you don't know your business and you don't know your customers, you are just stabbing in the dark at what technology is going to be best for you.

[00:11:45] I spoke to a couple of retailers earlier today, and I think a common theme that I'm hearing more and more is that actually it's not the kind of sexy AI that's really going to move the needle. It's all the boring stuff, right? It's all those things like route optimization for online grocery. It's to your point around quiet tech and empowering store associates to be better informed because so often when customers come into a store, they know more than the store associate. So it's about kind of leveling the playing field.

[00:12:13] And I think all of those quiet, marginal improvements when done at scale really make a big difference. Yeah. I mean, we've talked about AI and agentic from a front-end, customer-facing perspective. But actually where we're seeing AI move the dial seriously for retailers is in the back end.

[00:12:35] And I always say you should be looking at how AI can help you work or move faster, cheaper or smarter. Don't try and do all three at once. I think most retailers are either looking at moving faster or operating cheaper.

[00:12:54] And once you start to master those, you can start to understand how the AI can help you identify white space, anticipate the competition, and therefore start to operate in a smarter way. But when it comes to optimizing PDPs, if you're a fashion retailer, fashion or accessories retailer showing the product on a model without having to actually hire models. You can just use green screen, for example.

[00:13:23] All of these things are bringing in extra efficiencies and productivity that I think retailers can't afford to ignore. Whether or not that then bleeds through to the customer-facing side, I think that's another thing. But if they can master it in their own businesses, then that makes how they use it to sell to us a lot better. I think it's going to be a lot more effective.

[00:13:47] And on the kind of customer-facing side, I'm hearing the phrase AI slop all the time now, right? If you go onto LinkedIn, it's the AI-generated comments, the AI-generated posts. They're very easy to spot. And I'm personally getting so bored of it. It's just so homogenous. We all sound the same. Is there a risk? Do you think we've gone too far with AI when it comes to content creation? I think you need to blame the workmen, not the tools.

[00:14:15] Where retailers really need to focus when it comes to AI content is understanding how their products and brands and services are being spoken about outside of their own digital. So reviews, comparison sites, rankings, all of those things. If you then close that iterative loop and pull some of those keywords through.

[00:14:43] So, you know, I sell sneakers as a retailer. It's all very well and good to be able to say I can classify by color, by size, by type. But when you've got customers searching for, I need sneakers that are great for hard terrain, but that can be good for the, you know, getting to and from in the airport as well.

[00:15:07] That's where you need to go and see how your other customers have been talking about your own products and make sure that that's reflected back at them. I think that's the way of reducing AI slot. You don't just generate content for the sake of generating content. It goes back to what I was just saying to you before. That's the tail wagging the dog. You work out what you want to say and then hone it. And generative AI can make it so much easier to say it. But there's no point in just saying something for the sake of saying something, right?

[00:15:37] Yeah. So, yeah, I kind of agree with you. Tech for tech's sake. I mean, there's nothing worse, right? Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And also, to your point, customers are savvy to it. They're not stupid. They're using these engines. They're creating their own content themselves. So, they can spot it from a mile off. So, it really is best to predicate any AI enrichment of attributions or anything like that to help you with discoverability based on how customers are relating to and talking about your product already. Yeah.

[00:16:04] And to your earlier point, they need to be able to trust the retailer, right? So, if it's AI generated, you've got to let your customers know. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the EU AI Act is coming in and the transparencies, they pushed some of it back to 2027, but they've pulled the transparency part back forward to August 2026.

[00:16:24] So, if you're using AI to determine personalized pricing and sending out emails with a personalized range of selected range, for example, you have to put a transparency notice, just like we've all become accustomed to with confidentiality notices at the bottom of emails, basically saying we've used your data to generate this personalized offer for you using AI.

[00:16:51] So, I think it's going to catch a lot of retailers out, but thank God in that sense that the EU has actually paved the way, started to put in some regulations around this. So, that in that sense, we as consumers can see there is some transparency to hopefully maintain that level of trust with the retailer. Maya, I know you have a retail meeting, so I don't want to make you late for that, but thank you for coming on and best of luck with the book. Thank you, Natalie. Best of luck with the podcast.

[00:17:27] Thank you for listening to Retail Disrupted. If you enjoyed this episode and would like to support the podcast, please leave a rating or review or share it with others. It really makes a difference.