Social Commerce Lessons From TikTok’s Top Candy Seller

[00:00:06] You're listening to Retail Disrupted, a podcast that explores the latest industry developments and the trends that will shape how we shop in the future.

[00:00:16] I'm your host, Natalie Berg.

[00:00:18] And welcome to the first episode of 2025.

[00:00:34] It's really great to be back and I have a fantastic lineup of guests for you, including a number of retail CEOs that are booked in over the next few months.

[00:00:44] So if you haven't already subscribed, now is a great time to do so.

[00:00:49] It was really great to take some time off over Christmas.

[00:00:52] I did my best to switch off.

[00:00:54] But as you know, this is such an important period for retail.

[00:00:58] So I did find myself responding to journalists requests around Boxing Day and how I think Boxing Day has lost a little bit of its shine.

[00:01:06] And I also spoke to the BBC about the BRC figures that just came out both for December and 2024 as a whole.

[00:01:14] My very abbreviated take on all of this is that consumers aren't battening down the hatches just yet.

[00:01:20] But, and we've already seen this with the clothing retailer next, retailers aren't going to have much choice but to increase prices.

[00:01:30] They're grappling with heightened cost headwinds thanks to the budget, which we've covered before on the podcast.

[00:01:37] And I think in the coming months, and this is what I said to the BBC, in the coming months, shoppers will face rising prices.

[00:01:45] There will be fewer promotions.

[00:01:47] It's just the reality of the situation.

[00:01:49] And it was interesting to see after I spoke to the journalist and the article was published.

[00:01:54] It was interesting to see Next say that they will increase prices by 1% this year.

[00:02:01] That is below the current rate of inflation, but it's still not great news for the consumer.

[00:02:08] So, yeah, more on that another day.

[00:02:11] But I guess the point is that there is never a dull moment in retail.

[00:02:15] There's always something to comment on.

[00:02:16] And again, that's why we love this industry so much.

[00:02:19] But I did have a break, and it was nice to take some time off from the podcast.

[00:02:24] Probably shouldn't say that on my first episode of the year.

[00:02:27] But podcasting, I love it, but it is all-consuming.

[00:02:30] And I am at it every week, bringing you guests every week, more or less.

[00:02:34] And it's a lot of work.

[00:02:35] And I think it's important to have a little bit of time off.

[00:02:38] So, yeah, it's nice to be back.

[00:02:41] I am going to be in New York next week.

[00:02:43] I know a lot of you will also be going to NRF.

[00:02:45] If you're there, please come and say hello.

[00:02:47] It would be great to hear from you and also hear what you're enjoying about the podcast

[00:02:52] and what you might like to see more of this year.

[00:02:55] And if you're a retailer, I am going to be speaking to a couple of retailers already.

[00:03:00] But I am always looking to get retailers on the podcast.

[00:03:04] So if you want to come on and you have even just five or ten minutes,

[00:03:08] I'll have my microphones with me and we can do a short, impromptu interview.

[00:03:12] And I'd love to hear from you just to get your views on retail and anything that's,

[00:03:17] you know, any burning topics that you want to get off your chest.

[00:03:22] So definitely just drop me an email or get in touch on social media.

[00:03:26] It is going to be a really crazy few days.

[00:03:28] I know, you know, if you've been to NRF before,

[00:03:31] you know that there's not a whole lot of time to come up for air.

[00:03:35] And I'm also going to be covering the event for Forbes.

[00:03:38] So it's a busy time, but please do get in touch because I'd really, really love to hear from you.

[00:03:44] Okay, let's get into today's episode.

[00:03:48] Today, I am delighted to welcome George Robinson to the podcast.

[00:03:53] George is the managing director and owner of SoSweet.

[00:03:57] SoSweet is a specialist confectionery business based in the southwest of England.

[00:04:02] The business launched in 2014 and now trades through 16 retail stores across four counties in the southwest.

[00:04:09] It also has a large presence online, selling direct to consumers through its website,

[00:04:15] as well as dominating the FMCG category on TikTok.

[00:04:20] We're going to spend a lot of time talking about TikTok today.

[00:04:25] SoSweet also supplies a range of confectionery and snack products

[00:04:29] directly into hundreds of independent retail stores nationally

[00:04:32] through its direct-to-store wholesale business, SoSweet Direct.

[00:04:36] George is a very hands-on MD with a strong involvement across all functions of the business.

[00:04:42] His long-term goal is to grow SoSweet into a nationally stocked household brand.

[00:04:48] Let's welcome George to the podcast.

[00:04:56] So just to share with our listeners, George, we met a few months ago at an event that was being hosted by the Huck Group.

[00:05:03] I was being interviewed on stage and then when we opened it up to the floor for Q&A,

[00:05:08] someone at the back of the room raised their hand and asked for my thoughts on social commerce.

[00:05:13] Now, I didn't know this at the time, but this was a totally loaded question

[00:05:17] because George knows so much more about social commerce than me.

[00:05:22] And so, George, I thought it would be great to get you on the podcast

[00:05:25] and ask you all of those same questions and hear your thoughts on TikTok

[00:05:31] and get more insights into the incredible success that you guys are having on TikTok Shop.

[00:05:38] So really happy to have you on the podcast and looking forward to diving into our conversation.

[00:05:45] Yeah, it's great to be here, Natalie. Thanks for having me on.

[00:05:48] So, George, tell us a little bit more about SoSweet.

[00:05:50] I know it's a family business, but tell us a little bit more about how it got started

[00:05:54] and how your role is evolving.

[00:05:57] Yeah, absolutely. So, SoSweet was first established in 2014.

[00:06:01] And we're actually, when I say we're a family-run business, it's quite literally myself and my parents.

[00:06:06] Ironically, I was still in school when my parents started the business,

[00:06:10] but I'd very much kind of been around business.

[00:06:12] They'd run businesses all of their lives.

[00:06:15] We'd relocated from the Midlands down to North Devon, sunny North Devon, may I add,

[00:06:18] although it seems to rain more than it's sunny at the moment.

[00:06:22] But the desire was quite literally to open a couple of stores for my parents,

[00:06:26] for them to kind of semi-retire and kind of live the Devon life, if you like.

[00:06:31] My dad had very much run a retail business pretty much all of his life

[00:06:35] in a completely different industry.

[00:06:36] And we'd found ourselves kind of diversifying into confectionery.

[00:06:40] So we thought it was time to kind of add a, go for a standalone confectionery business.

[00:06:48] And yeah, that kind of evolved over many years.

[00:06:51] It, you know, realized that actually there's a huge opportunity there.

[00:06:55] Being in the southwest of England, we're in kind of a lot of seasonal locations as well.

[00:06:59] So very high footfall for seven or eight months of the year,

[00:07:02] and then quieter kind of during the winter,

[00:07:05] which meant that it was kind of work hard for half of the year

[00:07:08] and then kind of relax a little bit for the other half of the year.

[00:07:11] And really my dad saw a real opportunity in expanding the retail stores.

[00:07:16] So from 2014 to 2020,

[00:07:20] grew it pretty much at the rate of one store per year to six stores in 2020,

[00:07:25] which I think was all they, him and my mom had an appetite for.

[00:07:30] I was very much involved in the business in terms of,

[00:07:32] I'd work after school, I'd work Saturdays.

[00:07:35] And at this point I'd left school and had gone on to do a couple of ski seasons,

[00:07:40] completely, completely different.

[00:07:42] Then I found myself in a position with COVID,

[00:07:45] coming into the business full time,

[00:07:48] kind of joining the retail business that already existed.

[00:07:50] But I'd already always had this desire to launch a business online.

[00:07:55] I'd always been incredibly interested in marketing,

[00:07:57] although I wasn't officially qualified in any way.

[00:08:02] And COVID presented the perfect opportunity for that.

[00:08:05] Set about building a website,

[00:08:07] launched that at the end of April in 2020,

[00:08:10] and went on to turn over £1.7 million in our first year online,

[00:08:14] which was absolutely incredible.

[00:08:16] But I was really conscious that actually we'd built a strong brand locally

[00:08:19] where we were in the Southwest.

[00:08:21] And we'd built quite a good local customer base.

[00:08:24] And actually the customer base that we're building online was completely different.

[00:08:27] But the key to kind of the longevity and the success was

[00:08:31] not just building a customer base, but then actually retaining it.

[00:08:34] And it's quite interesting now to see quite a few of our competitors

[00:08:37] from that COVID era.

[00:08:39] Some of them actually aren't here anymore,

[00:08:41] which is quite sad to see.

[00:08:43] But it really just kind of proves how tough the landscape has become

[00:08:47] and how important retaining that customer base has been.

[00:08:50] So I suppose if we then fast forward to the present day,

[00:08:53] we've launched on, we've gone viral on TikTok.

[00:08:56] We've launched on TikTok Shop.

[00:08:58] We've expanded our retail business massively.

[00:09:00] So we now operate 16 of our own retail stores across four counties,

[00:09:05] Devon, Cornwall, Dorset and Somerset.

[00:09:06] So very much still a Southwest focused business.

[00:09:09] And our HQ where I'm at now is in the small town of Biddeford in North Devon.

[00:09:13] So I'm not far from the beach, actually.

[00:09:15] And that's where we do all of our kind of central distribution.

[00:09:18] Our team is based from here as well.

[00:09:20] Oh, that sounds totally idyllic, George, being based right next to the beach.

[00:09:25] I'm very jealous.

[00:09:26] Tell us more about how you're diversifying your business online.

[00:09:30] You've got TikTok and we're going to spend more time talking about that

[00:09:33] later on in our conversation.

[00:09:35] But you've also launched a wholesale division.

[00:09:38] And I'd love to get your views on how having these different distribution points

[00:09:44] has enabled you to grow and potentially reach new customers.

[00:09:49] We're stocked now in around 360 independent retailers across the Southwest and South Wales.

[00:09:55] So very much chasing growth on all fronts.

[00:09:57] My focus is very much on building SoSuite into a nationally recognized household brand

[00:10:03] while also building several distribution points, kind of distribution channels around that

[00:10:10] to kind of get the brand into retail, into online channels and kind of continue to grow our own store.

[00:10:18] So it's quite an exciting journey to be on at the moment.

[00:10:21] It sounds so exciting and just incredible to see the growth that you've experienced

[00:10:27] just in such a short space of time.

[00:10:29] So was it during the pandemic, was it literally just a case of stores were shutting

[00:10:34] and you needed to get your products online so you can continue trading?

[00:10:37] Is that what initially, like many businesses, is that what initially led you to go digital?

[00:10:43] Yeah, I think like a lot of businesses, we didn't really know what the landscape was going to be.

[00:10:48] We weren't really too sure what was happening with COVID.

[00:10:51] We had six stores at the time.

[00:10:53] They were all full of stock and unable to open.

[00:10:55] And actually quite quickly, we learned that we were, we kind of fell under being a food retailer.

[00:11:01] Technically, we would have been able to reopen our doors quite quickly.

[00:11:05] But we just realized that the appetite for confectionery, especially a specialist confectionery store,

[00:11:10] isn't quite there and would probably come under more fire than kind of success,

[00:11:15] if you like, for reopening too early.

[00:11:17] So we actually set about and we turned it around in a matter of days.

[00:11:21] We set about delivering suites locally in the North Devon area.

[00:11:25] And that was quite literally, my sister was still kind of living at home at the time.

[00:11:30] And it was quite literally myself.

[00:11:32] Me and my mum would take orders on through Facebook Messenger during the day.

[00:11:36] And then the four of us would go out.

[00:11:38] My sister included delivering suites around the area.

[00:11:41] All evening, I would then come back and build the website into the early hours of the morning.

[00:11:47] And we'd rinse and repeat that process for about six weeks until we were able to launch online.

[00:11:53] And actually, then we had to spend more time packing orders during the day.

[00:11:56] And that it actually just made no sense to spend all this time then out on the road delivering suites locally.

[00:12:03] So we kind of, we had the, we did actually have an advantage though.

[00:12:07] And as much as stock was very much a premium then, I think similar to us,

[00:12:11] we didn't know what the landscape was going to be.

[00:12:13] And that very much, that effect kind of rippled up the supply chain as well,

[00:12:18] all the way through to, you know, large distributors, importers, et cetera.

[00:12:22] So, you know, a particular niche of ours is American imported candy.

[00:12:25] I know that's something that's in the news a lot now actually around compliance.

[00:12:28] And I may decide we've done, you know, we've done all the compliance work with

[00:12:32] trading standards earlier this year.

[00:12:34] So we're kind of at a good position.

[00:12:36] But we found that there was no or very little American imported stock in the UK

[00:12:41] when the start of the year.

[00:12:42] But we actually had six stores fall to the brim of stock.

[00:12:47] And we were able to strip that out, list this online.

[00:12:50] And we kind of had a competitive edge over everyone else that didn't have stock.

[00:12:53] So it really kind of evolved, you know, evolved from there really.

[00:12:58] Yeah.

[00:12:58] And then at what point did you get on TikTok?

[00:13:02] And I guess, I guess you would have, it would have been a steep learning curve

[00:13:05] going from, you know, trading purely through physical stores to then figuring out e-commerce

[00:13:11] in, you know, at a time when everyone was sort of forced to make that switch almost overnight,

[00:13:16] as you say, you know, within a matter of days.

[00:13:19] So what led you to TikTok?

[00:13:21] So I think a lot, like a lot of other businesses and individuals, we first kind of discovered,

[00:13:27] or I first discovered TikTok in that kind of COVID era of 2020, summer 2020.

[00:13:33] And again, it was quite literally, you know, we'd have fine time for the odd family barbecue

[00:13:38] in the lockdown sun.

[00:13:39] And my sister would make us film a dance video to post on TikTok.

[00:13:43] It was all a bit of fun.

[00:13:45] So I started trying to create some content around summer 2020.

[00:13:48] But it was very much like just filming products.

[00:13:52] There was no kind of personality as a content.

[00:13:55] And actually, that's where, you know, you see a lot of businesses kind of get that content

[00:13:59] piece wrong nowadays is they think, you know, film it and they will watch it when that's

[00:14:04] not necessarily always the case.

[00:14:06] So it was kind of a bit of a battle.

[00:14:07] Actually, our first pieces of content were very, very poor.

[00:14:10] We then started, I think the first piece of content that went viral was around Christmas

[00:14:15] 2020.

[00:14:16] 2020.

[00:14:16] And we actually used a trending sound, which was a snippet from a Gavin and Stacey Christmas

[00:14:22] special.

[00:14:23] And we'd reenacted it in our warehouse.

[00:14:25] And that went viral, I think, to the tune of 80,000 views within a couple of days.

[00:14:30] And that kind of propped us up a little bit.

[00:14:32] So I think we then reached around 15,000, 20,000 followers.

[00:14:35] So we kind of started to put us on the map a little bit.

[00:14:37] But the real interesting part is it really came to life.

[00:14:41] And it was around mid-January 2021, we'd had a DM on Instagram.

[00:14:46] And this was at the time where there was no kind of marketing theme or anything.

[00:14:50] I was wearing every single hat.

[00:14:52] And I'd seen this Instagram DM pop up on the company Instagram, which was from someone who

[00:14:58] said, I've just placed an order on your website.

[00:15:00] Could you please film yourselves picking and packing the order and post it on TikTok and

[00:15:04] tag me so I can show my friends?

[00:15:06] So I thought, OK, a bit of a different request.

[00:15:10] But I've got five minutes, so let's do it.

[00:15:12] Anyway, I didn't realize that this was going to be the overnight success of TikTok.

[00:15:17] And straight away, I mean, we filmed the video, posted it.

[00:15:21] And the next day, I had woke up to something like 20, 25 comments from other people saying,

[00:15:27] here's my order number.

[00:15:28] I placed an order on your website.

[00:15:29] Could you please film yourself picking and packing and posting it?

[00:15:34] And we'd seen like a small uplift in sales from that as well.

[00:15:37] And we thought, well, there's like 20, 25 people here that want this.

[00:15:40] So straight away, jumped on it and said, filmed a video and said, place your order,

[00:15:44] comment your order number, and we will commit.

[00:15:46] So filming as many orders as we possibly can.

[00:15:50] And we just saw week on week just this incredible amount of growth.

[00:15:54] But what was really interesting is not only were we showcasing, it was an excuse that it

[00:15:58] was almost an excuse to film content.

[00:16:01] So it kind of gave us a little bit of a niche, if you like.

[00:16:04] We knew, OK, we keep filming these videos.

[00:16:06] We can keep, you know, we could pump 20, 30 videos out a day and it not necessarily get

[00:16:11] boring.

[00:16:12] So it was giving us visibility from a brand level.

[00:16:15] But then what was also really interesting is everyone's, every person's order was completely

[00:16:20] different.

[00:16:21] And at this point, our cast a log had grown to feature, you know, pick and mix suites in

[00:16:26] the UK, some novelty suites, some retro suites, American imports.

[00:16:30] So we had, you know, a huge range of, you know, let's say 2000 SKUs at the time.

[00:16:35] And no two orders were the same.

[00:16:36] So we were then able to showcase products that were going into orders that we, you know,

[00:16:41] might be a retro suite that might even be, you know, older than me as a suite that I

[00:16:45] would never think of marketing.

[00:16:47] But actually people were then starting to comment saying, I never even knew you could still buy

[00:16:51] this.

[00:16:51] I didn't know that it still existed.

[00:16:53] You know, oh my God, you've got American cereal.

[00:16:55] So it started to create this perfect storm of a trend of, of showcasing us as a brand,

[00:17:01] giving us a real niche and excuse to pump content out that was almost repetitive, but

[00:17:05] different.

[00:17:06] But then while also showcasing a wide range of products and that we were, that we were

[00:17:11] selling with the added advantage of actually people could click through to our website,

[00:17:15] check out and it'd be delivered in a couple of days.

[00:17:17] Um, so it was almost like the perfect storm and we just saw week on week on week sales

[00:17:22] increase.

[00:17:23] And I think the busiest day on our website, um, we had something like 48 and a half thousand

[00:17:26] visitors, which at the, at that point was, um, at that point, I think we had like more

[00:17:32] than a month's worth of traffic in one day.

[00:17:35] Um, and it just, it continues to grow there.

[00:17:38] So this kind of continued then for four or five months.

[00:17:42] And we literally grew from 20,000, around 20,000 followers at the start of January, 2021, um,

[00:17:48] to around 800,000 followers by the end of June, 2021.

[00:17:53] Meanwhile, driving huge amounts of traffic to our website, you know, acquiring customers

[00:17:57] and converting them there and then.

[00:17:59] Um, so we really built an audience and we, you know, we've been starting to get recognized,

[00:18:02] which is quite exciting being just a Southwest based business.

[00:18:06] So interesting, George.

[00:18:07] It's, it's just so fascinating how you were an early adopter to TikTok, you know, just

[00:18:13] using the platform, because if I understand correctly, everything you're describing is

[00:18:18] it all happened before the launch of TikTok shop.

[00:18:22] So once TikTok shop was launched, how did that change your business?

[00:18:26] It was March slash April, 2022 that the food and beverage category got launched.

[00:18:31] I think beauty got launched, um, summer 2021.

[00:18:34] Um, and it was still very much new.

[00:18:36] So, so we didn't launch on TikTok shop until, um, April, April, 2022.

[00:18:42] And actually it was, um, it was a lot of our kind of early success can be attributed to the

[00:18:49] account manager that onboarded us at the time, a guy called Richard Thorne, who's actually

[00:18:53] his last day at TikTok today, unfortunately.

[00:18:55] Um, but he, he was very, he was very kind of proactive on onboarding us because he was coming

[00:19:00] to us saying, you've got, you've got the biggest problem solved in as much as you've

[00:19:04] got the audience.

[00:19:05] Now we're giving you the, you know, we're in, we're giving you the integrated social commerce

[00:19:10] element to add on to that.

[00:19:12] So you don't have to drive traffic to your website to convert them.

[00:19:14] You can convert them within the app.

[00:19:16] And by the way, there's loads of subsidy available for it as well.

[00:19:19] Um, we've got to get you on the platform.

[00:19:21] And he kind of, kind of battled with us almost for four or five months while we, we got our

[00:19:26] head around the platform and, and, and actually then decided to take it seriously around October

[00:19:31] 2022.

[00:19:33] And I, I, again, it was the perfect storm.

[00:19:37] We, we quite literally went from, from turning over, um, three or 4,000 pound a month in September,

[00:19:43] um, 2022 on TikTok shop alone to 286,000 in the month of October.

[00:19:51] So quite literally in the space of two weeks, just actually investing in the platform and

[00:19:55] turning that dial up.

[00:19:57] Um, you know, we, we, we went from, you know, a 10 grand, uh, a quarter sales channel to, to

[00:20:03] a million pound a quarter.

[00:20:04] And that's what we ended up then turning over in, um, in Q4 of 2022 on TikTok shop alone.

[00:20:10] So it was just a huge kind of, when you talk about steep learning curves, it was, it was,

[00:20:14] you know, you've got to just dive in headfirst and make it work.

[00:20:18] Yeah.

[00:20:19] Yeah.

[00:20:19] If the audience is there and you know, your buyers are there, you've got to, I guess, just,

[00:20:23] just make it happen.

[00:20:24] Right.

[00:20:24] And learn as you go.

[00:20:26] How, how has, um, your business model evolved then?

[00:20:30] So I don't know if you can share numbers, but like, I'm just curious about how, how important

[00:20:34] is TikTok for you today?

[00:20:36] From an e-commerce perspective, um, TikTok shop is incredibly important.

[00:20:40] For us.

[00:20:40] Um, it definitely makes up a large chunk of our overall, um, e-commerce, um, revenue,

[00:20:46] if you like.

[00:20:47] Um, and I'm happy to share some top line figures in 2023.

[00:20:50] Um, we turned over 2.3 million pounds on TikTok shop alone as a channel.

[00:20:54] Um, 2024 on track to do four, I think closer to four and a half, actually with the black Friday

[00:21:00] we've just had, we were 116% up on the targets, um, that we'd put in place, which was absolutely

[00:21:05] incredible.

[00:21:05] We're paying the price on the backlog now, but we're working through it.

[00:21:08] Um, but the, the nature of the platform is just, it's just so incredible.

[00:21:13] It, um, you know, there is so much investment going into it.

[00:21:17] It's growing so quickly.

[00:21:18] Um, you know, functionality is being added all of the time in these categories are unlocking

[00:21:22] and, you know, we're, we're able to bring, um, you know, bring products to, to our audience

[00:21:28] on TikTok shop that then we then see the ripple effect through our other channels as well.

[00:21:34] So be it through our own website, be it through, um, our wholesale channels for our own stores,

[00:21:39] we're able to kind of create those viral products and then they start to, um, you know, they then

[00:21:44] start to sell on other channels as well.

[00:21:47] It's kind of a well-rounded kind of structure, but overall it makes up a large chunk of our kind

[00:21:51] of e-commerce revenue is very important to us as a channel.

[00:21:54] So I'm glad you brought that up.

[00:21:56] Cause I was going to ask you about this halo effect that we see in retail, where if you're

[00:22:00] an online retailer and you open a physical store, well, that drives brand awareness, which

[00:22:05] then maybe counterintuitively drives more online sales.

[00:22:09] So you do get that kind of, um, that halo effect.

[00:22:13] And I just wonder if there, I think you've kind of just answered this, but I wonder, is

[00:22:16] there a sort of reverse effect for bricks and mortar stores like yourselves using social

[00:22:21] commerce where, you know, the success that you've experienced on Tik TOK is then translated

[00:22:25] into your physical stores?

[00:22:29] Absolutely.

[00:22:29] And I think I can speak quite a lot about this because we, we pretty much have built, uh,

[00:22:35] we've almost built the business backwards, um, to a way that your traditional kind of D2C

[00:22:40] business would, uh, like you just described, you know, businesses are born online.

[00:22:45] Um, you know, they, they might sell, sell through a Shopify website and then start to bring

[00:22:49] some other, other channels on board.

[00:22:52] And then they start to consider opening physical stores.

[00:22:54] And we're seeing this trend now, especially, especially in the fashion space, you know,

[00:22:58] Gymshark are going after retail, um, quite aggressively, uh, brands like Marnie DeVoy

[00:23:03] just, you know, opening, um, stores in the UK, flagship store in New York.

[00:23:08] Um, Amy Smell with Odd Muse is doing the same.

[00:23:10] And, and it's really interesting to see this kind of, um, actually, uh, reinvigoration,

[00:23:17] if you like, of the high streets and, and, and, and businesses starting to reinvest into

[00:23:22] physical retail.

[00:23:24] And I think certainly in kind of the fashion industry and, and, and those kind of, um,

[00:23:28] bigger D2C brands that then want to, to, to grow on the high street is very much from

[00:23:33] a brand, uh, brand awareness perspective.

[00:23:35] They want a physical location, you know, in the fashion industry, it might be like a more

[00:23:39] of a showroom kind of style, um, that kind of thing.

[00:23:42] Whereas for us, we, you know, we were retail, we were bricks and mortar first.

[00:23:46] We had physical stores first.

[00:23:48] Each store, you know, stands on its own two feet is, is profitable, um, as, and is an

[00:23:53] experience for the customer.

[00:23:55] So actually then when we started to produce content on TikTok, started to go viral on

[00:23:58] TikTok and certainly started to sell on TikTok, actually it's, it's all of the impacts that

[00:24:03] the kind of the impact to our offline operation, if you like, that you usually, you can't

[00:24:08] measure and actually it is hard to measure.

[00:24:11] Um, but you, we, we, we kind of see that halo effect and certainly where we are based

[00:24:17] predominantly in the Southwest and we are in the Southwest, but a lot of Astros are predominantly

[00:24:22] in, um, be it kind of seaside holiday destinations, you know, um, Newquay, St. Ives, you know, these

[00:24:29] popular Cornish, um, holiday destinations.

[00:24:31] You find that a lot of, um, a lot of people from, you know, be it the Midlands, London,

[00:24:38] um, Manchester, the Northeast, you know, people are visiting these destinations on holiday and

[00:24:43] spending a week or two weeks a year in these locations.

[00:24:46] And actually then they're coming into our store, speaking to us, our staff in store, you

[00:24:51] know, asking about products that they've seen on, on TikTok, asking about people that

[00:24:55] they've seen on TikTok.

[00:24:56] Um, you know, and, and we just kind of, we, we then know actually, okay, people know

[00:25:01] about our brand, know about our business because they've seen us online and that's very hard

[00:25:07] to measure, but through that kind of, um, it's the, it's the kind of immeasurable impact

[00:25:13] to the, um, you know, it, it, it, it's kind of, uh, starting to become like a bit of an

[00:25:18] exponential curve.

[00:25:19] And actually really interesting as we've launched our direct to store wholesale business, we've

[00:25:23] now got, um, four sales reps covering the whole of the Southwest and South Wales selling into

[00:25:29] independent, independent retailers.

[00:25:31] So this is the convenience sector for courts, um, a little bit of speciality and attraction

[00:25:35] and leisure destinations as well.

[00:25:37] When we're going in selling into independent retailers and we're almost pitching, um, pitching

[00:25:42] them the idea that if they give us the space in the store, we can deliver, you know, if it's

[00:25:47] even just a one meter bay, um, we can deliver a, you know, a slice of a so sweet store within

[00:25:53] their shop.

[00:25:54] Um, and, and hopefully, you know, the customers that are visiting them, they know who we are

[00:26:00] from, from TikTok.

[00:26:01] They know who we are from, you know, we might have a store in, in an area not too far away.

[00:26:05] Um, and actually this kind of halo effect of, of the overall branding, all of the marketing

[00:26:11] activities then start to kind of really, um, marry together into this unstoppable force.

[00:26:16] Really.

[00:26:17] It's, it's really, really quite exciting.

[00:26:19] That sounds super exciting and also probably helps with the seasonality issues that you

[00:26:24] had previously.

[00:26:25] I want to ask you a little bit more about social commerce because my take on social commerce

[00:26:30] is of course it's booming now.

[00:26:32] Right.

[00:26:32] But it's been a little bit of a slow burn.

[00:26:34] And I remember 10 years ago when X was still Twitter.

[00:26:39] Um, but when Twitter launched, Twitter launched a buy button and we were all like, what are we

[00:26:44] going to buy on Twitter?

[00:26:46] And it just felt like everybody was testing it out and it's the, it just, we weren't ready

[00:26:50] for it.

[00:26:51] Instagram was still relatively new.

[00:26:53] Um, you know, there were a lot of retailers pinning their hopes on social commerce and

[00:26:58] it just, what we saw is it just didn't really transpire.

[00:27:00] And I think what's interesting is if you fast forward to today, 2024, um, well, this episode

[00:27:05] will go out January, 2025, but we're recording in December.

[00:27:09] So we'll stick with 2024, um, Instagram, obviously a much more established and natural platform

[00:27:14] for shoppers to go from discovery right through to purchase.

[00:27:17] And just a couple of taps, uh, we've got WhatsApp.

[00:27:20] We obviously have Tik TOK as we've talked about and, uh, Timu as well, you know, not a

[00:27:25] social media platform, but it's that same kind of push based gamification that you get

[00:27:29] from Tik TOK.

[00:27:30] And so it feels like we've, we're finally ready for social commerce and I'd love to

[00:27:36] get your take on this evolution more generally and kind of where you see it going.

[00:27:40] But also I'm just curious if you are on any other platforms other than Tik TOK and

[00:27:45] if so, have you had to tailor your content strategy?

[00:27:48] So, so yeah, I think there's quite a lot to unpack there.

[00:27:50] Actually, I think if we go back to the original point about, um, when X was Twitter and Twitter

[00:27:55] to launch the buy box and, um, I think that probably then kickstarted the, the evolution

[00:28:00] of, um, I suppose, uh, platforms trying to launch kind of a social commerce element.

[00:28:07] And we've obviously seen this with, you know, Facebook has launched Facebook marketplace

[00:28:11] many years ago and, and that really serves a purpose.

[00:28:14] And I almost kind of see that as kind of trying to rival with the private seller to private buyer,

[00:28:19] a model that eBay, you know, has, has, has built so, so well.

[00:28:24] Um, but then, you know, Facebook shopping became a thing.

[00:28:27] Instagram shopping became a thing.

[00:28:28] And like you said, WhatsApp as well, um, you know, Mesa acquiring WhatsApp and trying to

[00:28:32] then introduce, um, WhatsApp catalogs and add some B2B functionality as well.

[00:28:38] I think we've really seen a lot of platforms really give it a go.

[00:28:42] Um, I think I could really try and, um, I think you could really kind of liken, um, TikTok

[00:28:47] shop to Instagram shopping as a comparable platform, um, from a, from, you know, the entertainment

[00:28:54] first perspective.

[00:28:55] Um, they, they're quite similar platforms.

[00:28:57] And I think that actually Instagram shopping, I, I don't know about, uh, about you, but I,

[00:29:02] I've never used it.

[00:29:04] I never really see, um, brands, uh, tagging products with native Instagram shopping listings.

[00:29:11] Um, you know, it kind of, to me, I don't really see it as something that, that exists really

[00:29:17] in the world or is well utilized.

[00:29:20] Um, whereas TikTok shop, I think has done a really, really good job, um, of kind of encapsulating

[00:29:25] the whole experience.

[00:29:26] And I think it really comes back to the point that TikTok is very much an entertainment first

[00:29:32] platform.

[00:29:32] And I think, um, you know, I think kind of up until recently, anyone over the age of 25,

[00:29:38] when you mentioned the word TikTok to them, they think, you know, kids creating dance videos

[00:29:43] during lockdown, et cetera.

[00:29:45] Um, whereas now it's very much, um, very much a platform that is driving a lot of discovery,

[00:29:50] um, and, and not necessarily just from a, a brand and business perspective.

[00:29:55] I mean, you know, how many times does someone say to you, I really want to go to this restaurant

[00:29:59] that I've seen on TikTok.

[00:30:01] I really want to visit this country or the city that I've seen on TikTok.

[00:30:03] I want to read this book, you know, book talk is very much a category within TikTok and

[00:30:08] from working with them, I know that, um, from a non TikTok shop perspective, book talk

[00:30:13] and mum talk, you know, these kinds of groups of discovery, you know, these little pockets

[00:30:18] of discovery groups, um, are being capitalized on by, by TikTok from a community aspect.

[00:30:24] So it's clear that discovery is happening so much on the platform and having in TikTok shop

[00:30:30] is really then just capitalizing on that.

[00:30:32] Um, it's really interesting in a report published, um, in May this year, um, TikTok stated that

[00:30:36] 61% of users discover new brands and businesses, um, and products on, on the platform, um, which

[00:30:42] I think is really interesting.

[00:30:44] Um, one in two TikTok users say that they went to TikTok, um, to, to research or learn more

[00:30:50] about, uh, a brand or a product.

[00:30:52] And of those who were inspired to do something because of a search on TikTok, 91% of them

[00:30:57] follow through on, on doing the action, you know, i.e.

[00:31:00] converting.

[00:31:01] So I think it's really, really, really interesting because when you think of a traditional, um,

[00:31:06] marketing funnel or, you know, an e-commerce funnel, you know, you, you've got your top

[00:31:10] level discovery, right, right the way down to conversion.

[00:31:13] And TikTok is almost delivering.

[00:31:15] Well, it is delivering on, on every step of the funnel.

[00:31:18] You've got discovery at the very highest level, but within, you know, within 30 seconds, you

[00:31:24] could have, you could reach the end of that funnel and have converted and checked out on

[00:31:28] a product.

[00:31:28] And I think that's, um, to, to kind of add some context to our business, I think that's

[00:31:32] really where we're winning because sweets and confetery is very much impulse.

[00:31:36] It's, um, low risk, low, you know, low price impulse purchasing.

[00:31:40] Um, you know, people, our average order value on TikTok sits somewhere between 13 and

[00:31:44] 15 pound at the minute, which has increased quite a lot over the last couple

[00:31:47] of years.

[00:31:49] Um, you know, but customers don't mind parting with 10 or 15 pounds on an impulse purchase,

[00:31:55] especially when you add in, um, the, the value, the value that, um, and, and price

[00:32:00] play that TikTok, um, kind of plays to so strongly.

[00:32:03] So, so you kind of, then you've got product discovery happening with instant purchasing

[00:32:09] capabilities within two or three clicks in app with a really seamless experience.

[00:32:15] It's really just creating, you know, it's capturing every part of the funnel.

[00:32:18] It's just creating this really well-rounded e-commerce experience.

[00:32:22] Um, rather than I've seen this something on Instagram.

[00:32:26] Okay.

[00:32:26] Now it's a bit of a considered purchase.

[00:32:28] I've got to go and visit, you know, click through to their website.

[00:32:30] There's a link tree to, to navigate, or I've got to find them on Google.

[00:32:34] Then I've got to find the right product.

[00:32:35] But then I've got to understand, you know, if it's a piece of clothing, let's say, you

[00:32:38] know, you've got to, um, you, you then got to think about sizing.

[00:32:42] How does it fit on a model?

[00:32:43] Whereas, you know, if you, if you take clothing as an example, it might be that, um, you, you,

[00:32:49] you, you've seen a TikTok video with a piece of clothing.

[00:32:52] You really like, again, Amy Smale with odd news.

[00:32:54] I don't think she's quite on, um, TikTok shop yet, but a lot of her product discovery

[00:32:58] and, and, uh, brand awareness is being driven from TikTok purely from, um, purely, purely

[00:33:04] from users.

[00:33:05] And then eventually our customers seeing the, the products on, on people, on real people,

[00:33:12] um, you know, of, of varying, um, you know, varying shapes, sizes, et cetera, where, you

[00:33:19] know, wearing products, seeing that it fits so well, it looks great.

[00:33:21] It's great for office attire.

[00:33:22] It's great for Christmas, but, you know, playing into this thing, uh, into these things

[00:33:26] and then driving conversion, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um,

[00:33:28] I just think that's really, really interesting rather than all of the research that has to

[00:33:32] go around these kinds of considered purchases.

[00:33:35] And, and actually, you know, that, that plays through right to a lot of categories.

[00:33:38] I mean, if you look at Lux Collective, um, you know, uh, a very, um, very strong pre-owned

[00:33:45] luxury, um, luxury reseller now, you know, they're, they're utilizing TikTok shop.

[00:33:51] And I think I heard someone tell me the other day that they'd sold something like an 8,000

[00:33:56] pound, um, I think it was, uh, a Hermes bag through a TikTok shop live and they partnered

[00:34:02] with TikTok shop.

[00:34:03] So it just goes to show that purchases of all shapes and sizes, um, are, are, are, are

[00:34:08] actually being facilitated successfully through a platform like TikTok shop.

[00:34:12] That's super interesting.

[00:34:13] The whole live shopping aspect, I think is really interesting as well.

[00:34:16] And kind of to see where that could go, especially with those higher ticket, more considered

[00:34:20] purchases.

[00:34:21] But, um, I mean, so much of what you said is, is really resonated and it's reminded me

[00:34:26] of, um, something that the head of retail at Meta, uh, I've heard him say several times,

[00:34:31] which is that, you know, people used to find products and now products are finding people.

[00:34:35] And I think Instagram, Instagram, I mean, I've never clicked through or tapped through

[00:34:40] to buy anything, but I've, it's certainly been the place of discovery for me.

[00:34:44] It's short in that funnel.

[00:34:46] And I think what social commerce generally is doing and Instagram and TikTok in particular,

[00:34:50] as you compared them so well, I think they, they're both really bridging that gap, marrying

[00:34:55] up the convenience, um, and that frictionless experience that we've come to expect when shopping

[00:35:01] online, but they're marrying that with the discovery aspect that, you know, shopping online

[00:35:06] today is still very one dimensional.

[00:35:07] It's transactional.

[00:35:08] And I think social commerce really kind of fills that gap nicely.

[00:35:12] Absolutely.

[00:35:13] And, um, one more comment based on some of the things that you've just highlighted.

[00:35:17] Um, I thought the point about TikTok being entertainment first is a really important one.

[00:35:23] And I heard also the head of retail this time at TikTok, um, the head of retail speak at

[00:35:28] a conference earlier this year.

[00:35:30] And, uh, he made the point exactly that, that it's entertainment first, that people open

[00:35:35] TikTok to watch it.

[00:35:36] It's, you know, it's a social media platform, but that people are opening it to watch it, to

[00:35:40] be entertained.

[00:35:41] And so you have that captive audience and it's just about, you know, monetizing it.

[00:35:45] So really, really interesting stuff.

[00:35:46] Um, just briefly, I'd love to get your thoughts.

[00:35:50] Um, cause we were sort of, we sort of segued into this naturally, but I'd love to get your

[00:35:54] thoughts on e-commerce more generally now and kind of how, how you see it evolving.

[00:35:57] Because I think what we've seen is there's been a real proliferation of choice online.

[00:36:02] We've talked a lot about social commerce, but also things like direct to consumer marketplaces.

[00:36:06] We just touched on live shopping, quick commerce.

[00:36:10] You know, there's a lot of different ways that you can shop online today.

[00:36:13] And I don't know, do you think that the, that customer needs are currently being met

[00:36:20] today?

[00:36:20] Or do you think there are opportunities for the industry to make things a little bit

[00:36:25] better and enhance the customer experience?

[00:36:28] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:36:29] So I think, I think we'll, we'll start to see a real shift over the next few years in

[00:36:36] kind of e-commerce and D2C commerce as we know it, you know, it's like you said, it's been

[00:36:40] very transactional today.

[00:36:42] It's, um, you know, typically website driven, um, you know, a familiar checkout process, a familiar

[00:36:48] kind of shipping process.

[00:36:49] And that's kind of all, all, all we've known.

[00:36:51] And that's, that's evolved a little bit over the years and, and, um, and things have got

[00:36:56] got better, you know, the introduction of kind of 3d modeling your products on Shopify

[00:36:59] websites and, you know, better sizing charts and, and things like that kind of make that

[00:37:04] online experience a little bit, a little bit better.

[00:37:06] The introduction of subscriptions and things like this has, has really played a part, but

[00:37:10] I actually think there's going to be a real shift in kind of e-commerce and D2C as,

[00:37:14] as we know it.

[00:37:15] Um, and I think a real shift to, to marketplaces as well, you, you mentioned, um, Timu earlier.

[00:37:20] I know that, um, you know, I was actually on a call with Timu earlier this morning.

[00:37:24] It's a platform that we're onboarding with, um, quite quickly as a, as a selected local

[00:37:27] seller, you know, that they've, they've supposedly got huge demand in the UK, but nowhere near enough

[00:37:33] supply.

[00:37:34] And, you know, a lot of supply is currently coming from China because it's, you know, the,

[00:37:37] the Timu originates from China and that's where a lot of their suppliers are, but there's

[00:37:43] a real push to build the local sellers.

[00:37:45] Um, it's not even a category cause there's categories within them, but like you build

[00:37:49] the local sellers market within the UK where customers can, can get products shipped within

[00:37:54] five to seven days, which we know is actually quite a slow shipping time when it comes to,

[00:37:58] um, e-commerce in the UK.

[00:38:00] So I think there's going to be a real shift to towards marketplaces.

[00:38:03] And we're seeing this with, um, kind of bigger bands and retailers as well.

[00:38:08] You know, you've got the introduction of, um, or the evolution, if you like a B and

[00:38:11] Q marketplace, Debenhams, John Lewis, et cetera, um, opening up Tesco, you know, opening up to,

[00:38:17] um, to, uh, other brands joining the platform, obviously, you know, for a transactional fee,

[00:38:23] which I think is really interesting because then you, you got the ability to kind of club

[00:38:26] together a lot of products and almost do a bit of a, as you would go down the high street

[00:38:30] and, and, and go shopping, uh, with multiple different brands and retailers across lots

[00:38:35] of different categories.

[00:38:36] There's the ability to do that within one marketplace.

[00:38:40] And again, going back to Teemu, I know that they've got, you know, particular incentives

[00:38:43] around products being bundled together, even though they might be shipped from different

[00:38:48] retailers, um, you know, encouraging users to, to do a, a, a real shop across, uh, across

[00:38:54] different categories and kind of clubbing them together into one basket.

[00:38:58] So I think there's going to be a real shift.

[00:39:00] I think it's really interesting as well, seeing the, the, um, the kind of shift and uptake

[00:39:05] back towards the high streets as well.

[00:39:08] Like we were saying earlier, you know, D2C brands that were traditionally D2C built, um,

[00:39:13] testing, um, testing the high street and bricks and mortar retail more from a brand and, um,

[00:39:19] experiential, uh, marketing perspective.

[00:39:22] I know this is something we, you know, you spoke quite, quite a lot about, um, at the talk

[00:39:26] that we met at, you know, the kind of shift to experiential, um, you know, kind of experience

[00:39:32] when it comes to e-com and bringing that offline.

[00:39:34] Um, you know, I think, I think that's really interesting seeing how that's going to, then

[00:39:38] going to play out certainly for these bigger brands, um, that are opening brick and mortar

[00:39:41] retail as well, how they can kind of bridge the gap between the two specifically like the,

[00:39:47] the gym sharks of the world that, you know, they're, they're, they're, the majority, well,

[00:39:51] they're, they're, they're customers predominantly online.

[00:39:53] Um, you know, and there's kind of so much around, you know, data capture online and, and, you

[00:39:58] know, then, you know, whether it's email marketing, driving people towards an app, um, driving

[00:40:02] people towards other sales channels, then kind of how that gets married up with that in-person

[00:40:07] experience, um, to kind of make a, a kind of cohesive, um, shopping experience for, for

[00:40:14] a brand wherever you're shopping with them, um, whether it be on a marketplace on their

[00:40:18] own website or, or, or in their store.

[00:40:20] So, so yeah, I think in some way, I think there's going to be a real shift.

[00:40:23] I think there's going to be a real uptake in, in marketplaces and live shopping as well.

[00:40:27] I know that live shopping is, is, is absolutely booming in China.

[00:40:31] Um, and it, you know, TikTok shop, um, again, I'm speaking with someone at TikTok, uh, is

[00:40:36] at their offices on Wednesday for a merchant round table.

[00:40:39] And someone said to me that TikTok shop is the third biggest shopping platform in, in China.

[00:40:44] Um, and it didn't exist five or six years ago.

[00:40:47] So they, they, they, they've experienced this huge growth and a lot of it is being driven

[00:40:52] by, by live shopping.

[00:40:54] And again, it's, it's really kind of certainly in the UK is reinventing that, that QVC tele

[00:40:59] shopping that, that we, you know, we, we, we, we all know.

[00:41:03] Um, but bringing it to people on platforms that they're natively on from an entertainment

[00:41:09] perspective, like you said, people are opening TikTok to watch videos.

[00:41:13] They don't necessarily want to be sold to, but if they see something they like and they've

[00:41:17] got the ability to purchase it there and then, or have someone, you know, explain, you

[00:41:21] know, they can enter a live shopping room where, you know, they, they might not be fully

[00:41:26] decided on a product, but then actually the, the live shopping host is, is, you know, they're

[00:41:30] doing their job, they're selling the products, but you're able to comment and engage with

[00:41:34] a live host, you know, oh, do you have it in blue or, you know, what, how does it fit?

[00:41:38] Or, um, can I return it?

[00:41:40] What flavors do you have?

[00:41:40] All of these questions can be answered in, in real time and actually driving purchases

[00:41:45] there and then, um, on a, on a, on a mass basis.

[00:41:49] Um, so I think it's really, really interesting.

[00:41:51] I think there's a lot more to come in terms of social commerce in the UK.

[00:41:55] I think TikTok shop, um, is very much still at grassroots level.

[00:42:00] Um, I know, uh, you know, for us as a business, we're investing heavily in the platform, you

[00:42:06] know, from a resource perspective, from a product perspective.

[00:42:08] Um, I know that, you know, going up the supply chain to a, right, the way up to a manufacturer

[00:42:13] level, you know, and brands that sit much big, you know, brands that are much, much bigger

[00:42:18] than us in the industry are, are having these conversations with us about how, you know,

[00:42:22] they're, they're huge businesses, but they, they can't mobilize or they're struggling

[00:42:26] to mobilize on TikTok.

[00:42:27] How can they utilize merchants like ourselves to, to get their products, um, you know, on,

[00:42:32] on, on these marketplaces.

[00:42:34] So, um, I think, yeah, I think there's a long way, a long way to go.

[00:42:38] Yeah.

[00:42:39] And actually that's, that leads me nicely to my final question.

[00:42:42] I mean, we could be here for hours cause it's just so fascinating because, you know,

[00:42:45] it's, it's moving so quickly.

[00:42:47] And I think there's a lot of retailers and brands that listen to the podcast that, um,

[00:42:51] you know, they might be a bit bigger than you in terms of their store estate might be a little

[00:42:56] bit harder to make those changes and to take those risks as well of, you know, adopting

[00:43:01] new channels and I guess adopting a different persona and letting go a little bit on social

[00:43:06] media.

[00:43:06] I mean, there's a lot, I guess a lot that goes into it.

[00:43:10] So what advice do you have for other retailers and brands that are looking to capitalize on social

[00:43:15] commerce?

[00:43:17] I think my first piece of advice is, is quite broad, but it would like, you've got to start

[00:43:22] with, with, you just got to get involved, get involved in, in some capacity, um, get, you

[00:43:28] know, mobilize on these platforms, put, put teams or resources in place.

[00:43:32] Um, and then I think, you know, don't, don't be scared.

[00:43:35] It's, it's like you're saying with, with bigger brands, there is, um, you know, we're starting

[00:43:41] to experience this a little bit now as we, as we start to grow, you know, there are,

[00:43:44] um, you know, there's, I suppose a bit of internal red tape when it comes to marketing, what,

[00:43:48] what is allowed, what's not allowed following brand guidelines, et cetera.

[00:43:51] And, and actually there's, you know, levels of sign off procedure, you know, layers of

[00:43:55] sign off that needs to happen for content.

[00:43:58] Um, and actually TikTok being an entertainment first platform and content led, um, it's hard

[00:44:03] to keep up with the level of content needed from the platform when it needs to be signed

[00:44:06] off at every level.

[00:44:07] Um, and I, you know, I've kind of been privy to some of these conversations.

[00:44:10] How do we, um, how, how, how the bigger brands actually, um, keep up when there's, you know,

[00:44:17] they might have some internal rules in place, but actually it's that kind of letting go of

[00:44:22] a little bit of kind of control when it comes to, um, you know, not having to sign off every

[00:44:28] piece of affiliate content, um, and actually letting, letting affiliates do their job when

[00:44:33] it comes to, you know, creating comment, creating content around products and, and, and things.

[00:44:38] And, and actually, I suppose not being scared of a little bit of, of, um, not backlash, but,

[00:44:43] um, not being scared of, um, what's the word?

[00:44:47] Maybe a little bit of negative content that may come.

[00:44:49] I mean, if you, you know, look at like Audi or Ryanair's marketing team, they do an absolutely

[00:44:54] fantastic job and actually, you know, they, they, they share content that, that may be deemed

[00:45:00] as, as controversial or they engage in with, uh, with, with users in, in a, in a way that

[00:45:06] could be deemed as controversial, but actually, if anything, it just creates more variety for

[00:45:10] them.

[00:45:10] Um, I'm not saying that's necessarily the best approach, but actually letting content play

[00:45:14] out on a platform that is content driven, um, I think is the absolute kind of key.

[00:45:19] Um, there's obviously, you know, deeper pieces around, um, you know, live shopping and affiliates

[00:45:25] and, and, and, and the actual pieces of content, but it's a real opportunity to engage with your,

[00:45:31] your, your core customer base and acquire new customers.

[00:45:34] Um, you know, letting customers have a voice, being able to reply to, you know, that they

[00:45:39] can comment on videos.

[00:45:39] You can reply to, um, you can, you can reply to users comments with another video, create,

[00:45:45] you know, creating another piece of content to continue the conversation going.

[00:45:49] Um, you know, like I said, with live shopping, you're able, it's almost like being in a room

[00:45:53] with a hundred, 200 people, um, and them asking you a million and one questions around the

[00:45:57] product or around your brand and you actually being able to answer them, um, there and then

[00:46:01] and, and almost give everyone that individual, um, service, if you like, that wouldn't be

[00:46:07] possible in a store environment.

[00:46:09] You know, if 200 people walked into your store and there's one of you and they ask a million

[00:46:11] and one questions, it's just, it's just not possible when, when it's kind of on a comment

[00:46:15] flow and people are reacting and other people are answering other people's questions, you

[00:46:19] know, it really creates a sense of community around a brand.

[00:46:21] Um, so I think, yeah, certainly when it's, you know, bigger rounds with maybe some, um,

[00:46:26] reservations about the platform, I think, you know, brands that don't get involved now

[00:46:31] or very soon, I think are really quickly going to start to miss out.

[00:46:35] And I think a lot of the key to our success on the platform is that we were, we were very

[00:46:40] much an early mover.

[00:46:41] We were, you know, one of the first sweet brands on the platform.

[00:46:44] Um, and we've really lent into it over the years, every piece of new functionality, every

[00:46:49] event that we can get involved with every new creator, um, every new piece of content,

[00:46:53] every trend we try and, you know, we, we, we try our absolute best to keep up with, to

[00:46:57] keep us at the top of that level.

[00:46:58] And it's one of the reasons that we dominate the food and beverage category with a number

[00:47:01] one sweet seller on the platform.

[00:47:03] Um, and you know, we, we consistently rank top five, top 10 in, in the overall FMCG category,

[00:47:09] um, in some cases sitting next to, and sometimes above some, you know, some really well-known

[00:47:15] big brands, um, which is really, really exciting for a business that was born out of North Devon

[00:47:19] 10 years ago and didn't have an online presence four years ago.

[00:47:22] So, um, yeah, I think just absolutely just getting involved, you know, in some cases,

[00:47:28] just building the plane while you're flying and learning, you know, learning it as you go,

[00:47:33] because there's no, you know, otherwise it's by the time something's been signed off and

[00:47:38] everyone's happy, it's that trend's over.

[00:47:40] Yeah.

[00:47:42] Yeah.

[00:47:42] So what I'm hearing from you is authenticity community test and learn, iterate, evolve,

[00:47:49] uh, and probably most of all just get started.

[00:47:53] Absolutely.

[00:47:53] And I was on a, on a panel last year with, um, one of the directors of marketing at TikTok.

[00:47:59] Um, and he asked me, when does that test and learn phase on, on TikTok end?

[00:48:04] And I said, it, it, it never ends.

[00:48:06] You know, what worked yesterday might not work tomorrow.

[00:48:09] And we're, we're consistently, you know, if we suddenly shifted back to content that was

[00:48:13] picking people's orders and filming us packing it, you know, I'm sure that probably there would

[00:48:18] be some uptake, I'm sure.

[00:48:20] And people, our original people from our original audience maybe would remember that, but that's

[00:48:26] not our style of content anymore.

[00:48:28] It's, it's really evolved and we've got, you know, a much wider business to showcase.

[00:48:31] Um, so you, you've just got to really kind of go with, go with the times and not be scared

[00:48:37] to adopt these new routes to, to your customers.

[00:48:41] George, it's been so great to catch up and hear your story.

[00:48:44] Thank you for coming on the podcast.

[00:48:46] Absolutely.

[00:48:47] Thank you ever so much for your time, Natalie.

[00:48:48] It's been great.

[00:48:51] Thank you for listening to Retail Disrupted.

[00:48:54] If you enjoyed this episode and would like to support the podcast, please leave a rating

[00:48:58] a review or share it with others.

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