What Retailers Can Learn From the Navy Exchange

[00:00:06] You're listening to Retail Disrupted, a podcast that explores the latest industry developments and the trends that will shape how we shop in the future.

[00:00:16] I'm your host, Natalie Berg.

[00:00:18] On today's episode, I'm speaking to Rich Honeyball, who is the EVP and Global Chief Merchandising and Marketing Officer for Nexcom.

[00:00:38] Nexcom, or the Navy Exchange Service Command, is a $2 billion plus global enterprise offering retail, services, food, and hospitality.

[00:00:49] Before Nexcom, Rich founded PDB Advisory Group and the Brand Co. Lab, where he advised CEOs on purpose-driven marketing strategies and brand development.

[00:01:00] Rich also held executive roles at Hager and JCPenney, which involved building world-class teams, strategic development, brand growth, and corporate refresh initiatives.

[00:01:11] Rich also has a retail podcast called Retail Relates, and I will make sure to link to it in the show notes.

[00:01:18] So, without further ado, Rich, welcome to the podcast.

[00:01:21] I am really excited to have you here and to get your views on retail, and also to learn more about your role, because it's not your typical CMO role.

[00:01:32] So, why don't we start with that?

[00:01:34] Can you tell us more about Nexcom and what it is that you do there?

[00:01:39] Sure, absolutely.

[00:01:40] And Natalie, thank you very much for the invitation.

[00:01:42] So, we are a military command, which is, yes, you are right, very unusual when it comes to retail.

[00:01:51] And I've been here for close to a decade, and before that, I was in what I now refer to as outside retail.

[00:01:58] So, what is the Navy Exchange or Nexcom?

[00:02:02] We are a retailer.

[00:02:06] We offer food, fuel services.

[00:02:10] We have hospitality, uniforms, telecommunications.

[00:02:14] The biggest revenue source is our retail and services end of it.

[00:02:21] And the question that I always get asked is, why does the military have a retail operation?

[00:02:26] Why does that make sense?

[00:02:27] And so, I'll tell the very quick story.

[00:02:29] If it's the late 1800s, and you and I are in London or in New York or in Virginia, and we wanted something, we'd go to the corner store.

[00:02:37] If we were in a rural area, we'd travel into town.

[00:02:41] If you're in the middle of the ocean somewhere on a ship, not so much.

[00:02:45] So, we, as ships would pull into shore, these flat-bottom boats with entrepreneurs called bumboats would come in and sell their wares.

[00:02:55] It was typically second quality goods at a high markup.

[00:02:58] So, one day an enterprising captain of a ship built a canteen and started to carry product on that canteen at a very small markup as a convenience and as a savings for the sailors.

[00:03:12] And that grew into what I would say is a semi-official organization in the early 1900s.

[00:03:18] And then we were started in or founded in 1946, ironically by Captain Bingham, who was a captain in the Navy, but was also the first non-family president of Macy's Herald Square.

[00:03:33] So, what do we do today?

[00:03:34] We have about 300 stores around the globe, and we offer quality goods and services at a value.

[00:03:41] We're there to serve as a convenience, as a way for sailors to save.

[00:03:46] We're also there to help support the mission of the command, which we do quite often in times of need.

[00:03:53] And we're there to improve, to bring the community together and to help improve and contribute to quality of life programs.

[00:03:59] Rich, that is all super interesting, and we're going to come back to some of the things that you've just touched on.

[00:04:04] But before we do that, I want to get your views on the broader industry and specifically the evolution of retail.

[00:04:10] Because we know that retail is an industry that is always changing, it's always evolving, and I think that's what makes it so much fun.

[00:04:18] In recent years, we've seen unprecedented levels of change, and a lot of that, of course, has been driven by technology.

[00:04:23] But if we widen the lens and look back over the past 50, 60 years, I think we're reminded that change is a constant in retail.

[00:04:31] So, Rich, how would you describe the current state of retail, and what are some of the biggest shifts that you've seen, either from retailers or consumers over the years?

[00:04:41] So, I would say, you know, the easy one to answer is technology.

[00:04:45] Technology is changing at a much more rapid pace.

[00:04:50] And I recently was having a conversation with a fellow executive who said, if you look at retail until about the 1980s, it was fairly the same.

[00:04:59] I don't know that I agree completely with them, but from a technological perspective, it was fairly the same.

[00:05:04] And then since that time, it's been exponential change.

[00:05:09] And a lot of theories and a lot of guessing as to where we go from here.

[00:05:14] And I think that's accurate.

[00:05:16] But I also think there's a lot of what I would call non-technical change and changes in the consumer.

[00:05:21] If you – I am a little bit of a history nerd, so I study the history of retail and commerce.

[00:05:29] If you go to post-World War II and the manufacturing boom, and if you go to the 1960s and advertising telling us that we had to have this and we had to have that,

[00:05:40] I think right now we are definitely going through a period where the average consumer is saying, I don't need as much stuff.

[00:05:49] They're a little bit more conscientious of what they're buying, and you're seeing that in this combination of a lot of retailers kind of presenting sameness and needing to differentiate

[00:06:02] and not necessarily always being able to do it with product and price while the consumer is saying, I don't need all the stuff you're selling me,

[00:06:11] and I'd rather go spend money on trips or travel or experiences.

[00:06:18] And so I think we're at an interesting inflection point where you're going to see a culling of retail a little bit.

[00:06:26] Yeah, and the middle is always the worst place to be, right?

[00:06:30] It's the ones that can't differentiate the homogenous retailers that – I mean, that is the recipe for disaster if you can't stand out from your competitors.

[00:06:40] And on top of that, I think you touched on some really valid points around the fact that consumer values are changing.

[00:06:47] And as consumers, we're expecting retailers to have the same values, to represent us.

[00:06:53] The stigma around buying secondhand has – that's gone.

[00:06:57] And again, because of the democratization of tech there, we've seen a whole new area explode around pre-love shopping.

[00:07:04] And so it's just such a time of change, I think.

[00:07:08] Do you think that despite all this change, though, that the pillars of retail remain the same?

[00:07:12] So do you think, you know, at the end of the day, people still want good value, they want quality products, good service, convenience?

[00:07:18] And maybe technology has just amplified those needs?

[00:07:22] Oh, I think technology has absolutely amplified those needs.

[00:07:26] And I think that's where a lot of retailers are scrambling right now.

[00:07:29] I think retailers – and I'm kind of casting a generalized stone, so if we go into specifics, that my answer would change.

[00:07:40] But I think there were many retailers that 10 or 15 years ago saw technology as the answer for a product mix that wasn't exciting

[00:07:49] or a customer experience that was waning a little bit, and they're finding out that culture is more important than processes,

[00:08:00] and processes are more important than systems.

[00:08:03] And so if all you do is upgrade your technology and you didn't have a process and a culture to build it on,

[00:08:09] you're probably in trouble.

[00:08:11] And you probably built this tech stack in a way that is making it more challenging for both the consumer and the associate.

[00:08:18] So I absolutely agree, and I think we're coming full circle to where even as we talk about AI, humanity is very important.

[00:08:28] Yeah, yeah, that is a super important point.

[00:08:31] And I'm glad you touched on cultural change because that comes up so much on my podcast.

[00:08:35] I just spoke to the retail technology directors at Primark and Ann Summers, so two UK retailers,

[00:08:41] and they both stress the importance of cultural change and bringing your people with you

[00:08:46] in regards to digital transformation.

[00:08:48] So it's such an important point.

[00:08:50] Now, I want to come back to technology, but first, let's talk a little bit more about Nexcom.

[00:08:54] Before we started recording, you said that the mission at Nexcom is a differentiator and one that you're drawn to.

[00:09:01] Can you elaborate on this?

[00:09:03] I can.

[00:09:04] So I serve in a couple of unique roles.

[00:09:07] So I have that double M in my title.

[00:09:09] So I'm the head merchant for the retail part of Nexcom or the Navy Exchange, which is about $1.7 billion.

[00:09:18] And then I'm the global chief marketing officer for the command, which then stretches into food and fuel and services.

[00:09:25] And we have a hospitality division with about 18,000 rooms.

[00:09:28] So it can get quite interesting.

[00:09:30] We are what they call non-appropriated funds.

[00:09:34] So we don't live off of taxpayer funds.

[00:09:37] We are, for the most part, kind of self-containing.

[00:09:41] The difference is that what we do with our profit, if you will, is reinvest it in the experience or contribute it back towards quality of life programs.

[00:09:51] So our customers are really our shareholders.

[00:09:55] We still are motivated to generate that profit because we give it back to them in the form of a dividend at MWR.

[00:10:04] But we're also there to save them money, save them time, and understand the unique position that they're in.

[00:10:11] And I'll give a quick example.

[00:10:13] Without an endorsement, because working for the Navy, you can't do it.

[00:10:16] We just launched the first Toys R Us department on a military base anywhere in the world.

[00:10:22] And I was with the CMO when we launched it here in Oceana and Virginia Beach.

[00:10:28] And there were a couple hundred kids that were interacting.

[00:10:31] And I said, if you look at those kids, they're military kids.

[00:10:35] They will all move in the next two to three years.

[00:10:40] And when you realize that, and when you realize the challenges that our patrons, as we call them, have,

[00:10:46] you operate a little bit differently, the experience means more.

[00:10:51] You realize that many of them are going in not just to find what they need, but to find a place to take a deep breath,

[00:10:58] to check things off their list, to catch up with friends, to get away.

[00:11:02] And so we have to think about all of that when it comes to the customer journey.

[00:11:06] Yeah, that's so interesting.

[00:11:08] And I'd love to know a little bit more about your priorities and objectives as CMO of such a unique business.

[00:11:14] You've just highlighted how different your business is to traditional retail.

[00:11:19] But would you say that some of the opportunities or maybe some of the challenges that you face are broadly similar?

[00:11:25] Oh, very similar.

[00:11:26] If anything, it's actually...

[00:11:28] So I'm a huge believer in that you can look at the obstacles and say, you know, we're not this retailer.

[00:11:36] I don't have an unlimited budget for tech.

[00:11:40] And I think one of the things we have to do is get over that and figure out what resources you have and what makes you unique.

[00:11:47] And if I look at the Navy Exchange, I would say, while in some ways we are unlike other retailers,

[00:11:54] in many ways we are what retail was 100 years ago.

[00:11:57] And I'm not referring to our technology.

[00:12:00] We actually are making great advances.

[00:12:02] But we have a group of stores, a format that's called the general store.

[00:12:07] And it's like an old-fashioned general store that sets up.

[00:12:10] It's there on a base.

[00:12:11] It's there to serve a community.

[00:12:12] And you have to modify the assortment and the experience for the needs of that specific community.

[00:12:19] So what I love about it, and I've had the privilege of working for some great brands and some great companies,

[00:12:27] is that it's really retail in its primacy when you had to understand the customer at a global and local level

[00:12:34] and figure out within your toolbox what you can do to make their lives better

[00:12:39] and hopefully generate revenue in the process.

[00:12:42] Yeah, that is really interesting.

[00:12:45] And in some ways I feel like retail is going full circle.

[00:12:48] Obviously, retailers using technology to get closer to the customer,

[00:12:52] larger retailers using technology to better personalize their offers,

[00:12:56] but equally smaller retailers using technology to kind of level the playing field with those larger retailers.

[00:13:02] So I guess there's just so much happening.

[00:13:04] And we'll come back to tech in a sec.

[00:13:06] But I also just wanted to kind of build on something that you were just talking about,

[00:13:12] which is sort of the similarities to traditional retail.

[00:13:15] Because before the Navy Exchange, you spent time at JCPenney, Hager, and Brooks Brothers.

[00:13:21] You've gone from specialty to department store retail, moderate to luxury, retail to wholesale,

[00:13:27] and then private to public sector.

[00:13:30] So how has this incredibly varied experience shaped your current role?

[00:13:35] It has, I think, over the last 30 years.

[00:13:40] And I am, you know, I think we both know Ron Thurston.

[00:13:43] He talks about retail being an accidental career.

[00:13:46] And mine was an accidental career.

[00:13:47] Ironically, I wanted to be a lawyer in the Navy when I started off.

[00:13:50] So things came full circle for me.

[00:13:53] I think through all of those positions at any spectrum, it all comes back down to the customer.

[00:14:05] Even when it was B2B, it was our job to go B2B to see and understand who the core customer was

[00:14:13] so that we could help our account better market to them, better communicate with them.

[00:14:18] And so I think today, if I am leveraging the 30 plus years of experience, it is about the customer

[00:14:28] and how you treat them every day.

[00:14:31] And at the same time, how you put the associate at the forefront of that experience and make it as easy

[00:14:38] for them to take care of the customer.

[00:14:41] Yeah.

[00:14:41] Yeah.

[00:14:42] Because I often hear that, you know, you have to put the customer at the heart of your strategy.

[00:14:45] We hear a lot about customer centricity.

[00:14:47] But increasingly, we're hearing a lot about employee centricity.

[00:14:51] For retailers to offer a really compelling customer experience,

[00:14:55] the first step to doing that is making sure that your employees are happy,

[00:14:59] that your frontline are advocating your brand and offering that kind of personalized,

[00:15:04] seamless, frictionless experience that customers today are increasingly expecting.

[00:15:08] So I wonder, what can traditional retailers learn from your business?

[00:15:13] Because I know you've already touched on the word community.

[00:15:17] You've touched on how customers are shareholders.

[00:15:20] So I'm already kind of taking some notes as you're talking and hearing things.

[00:15:24] But what would you say traditional retailers can learn?

[00:15:26] You know, it's an interesting question.

[00:15:28] So I'll go to NRF or ShopTalk and I'll sit in the audience and listen to a CEO of an organization

[00:15:36] that will talk about, you know, we're customer focused and we put our associates first and

[00:15:44] we're installing this technology and we're building this new community.

[00:15:49] And I'll bring some of our team members there.

[00:15:54] It's a great training ground.

[00:15:55] And they come away with, wow, we have the hard things done already.

[00:16:00] We almost need to do the easy things, which is to connect the dots.

[00:16:03] And I think it's having that authentic sense of purpose, of mission.

[00:16:10] See, mission sounds really military when you say it.

[00:16:14] And sometimes I catch myself because our mission statement is mission you and that makes sense

[00:16:22] being part of the military.

[00:16:23] But I think that's what the average retailer can take away is it's not a soundbite.

[00:16:29] It's a mission.

[00:16:30] And you wake up every day with it.

[00:16:31] And do I think we get it right?

[00:16:33] No, I think we're on a journey to continually reinvent and evolve and reinvigorate what we

[00:16:40] do.

[00:16:40] We can get caught up in the same noise that everybody else does.

[00:16:45] But when it's a mission and when your patron is dependent on it, it feels that much more

[00:16:51] important to accomplish it.

[00:16:52] And I think that's where the traditional retailer, the average retail should look to try and excel.

[00:17:00] Yeah, that's a great point.

[00:17:02] How is digital impacting your business?

[00:17:05] And I know we're going to talk about your store of the future in a sec as well.

[00:17:10] But just for those who aren't familiar with it, can you buy online?

[00:17:14] Do you offer click and collect?

[00:17:15] Is there technology in store?

[00:17:17] Just generally, how has digital impacted the business?

[00:17:20] We have a digital presence.

[00:17:21] Flyers are digital.

[00:17:22] We've had an e-commerce site for years.

[00:17:24] We have continued to evolve it.

[00:17:27] I think the stage that we're at now is really one more of unified commerce or integrated commerce.

[00:17:35] And it's looking at it from a holistic perspective and not just from, you know, this is my website and this is my bricks and mortar.

[00:17:45] We are very bricks and mortar driven because our stores are on bases and because that's if you're 20% of our business is overseas.

[00:17:55] And if you're overseas, the Navy exchange becomes almost like the town hub.

[00:18:00] And if you're here in Conus, the larger the store, the more customers are going to come in from far and, you know, from far away.

[00:18:09] But what we're really looking at now is how we take the web journey and integrate that into the physical journey so that they're one and the same, which many retailers are doing.

[00:18:21] In some ways we have to catch up.

[00:18:25] In some ways we may be a little bit further ahead, but that's really the path that we're on.

[00:18:29] About 40% of our, 50% of our customer base is active duty and active duty family.

[00:18:35] And almost half of them are Gen Z.

[00:18:38] And they prefer a bricks and mortar experience, but they want one that's integrated with digital so that it's seamless.

[00:18:45] So they're really at the forefront of telling us this is what you need to do in order to capture my attention and earn my business.

[00:18:52] Now, you said that you're building out your vision for the store of the future.

[00:18:56] So can you tell us more about this and how you're leveraging technology to improve the customer experience?

[00:19:02] So it's interesting.

[00:19:03] Part of me feels odd when I say store of the future, because if I say that to some, you're going to get the image in your mind, especially if you've never seen a Navy exchange,

[00:19:14] that you're going to be walking into the Gymshark pop-up shop, or you're going to be going into something that's just radically beautiful and engaging.

[00:19:26] And no, what we're doing is we're looking at how we run retail in the future.

[00:19:31] And how do we, with the pace of change that's happening, be as agile as possible?

[00:19:37] And in some ways, what that means is making simple decisions.

[00:19:41] I'll give you an example.

[00:19:43] If I, because we carry everything from soft lines to hard lines, from moderate to luxury to consumables and convenience,

[00:19:51] and I have stores as large as 200,000 square feet, you can imagine that in different areas.

[00:19:57] You've got merchants who have said, I need these kind of tables for handbags and these kind of tables for essentials,

[00:20:04] these kind of tables for consumer tech.

[00:20:07] And when you go to change around a store, you realize that your table inventory has 157 different types.

[00:20:16] If I'm able to streamline that into 24 choices, then it allows me to be far more agile and rapidly modify a department.

[00:20:25] So what we're looking at doing is how do we renovate our stores more rapidly, more efficiently, create more agility,

[00:20:35] and invest in those customer touch points that matter like digital screens and QR codes and boosted Wi-Fi.

[00:20:43] How do I take some of the inventory out and put in seating areas and communal gathering areas?

[00:20:49] How do I do things that are truly customer focused and not just tech for the sake of tech,

[00:20:54] or a fancy table for the sake of saying, hey, look at that cool table?

[00:20:58] Tech for the sake of tech is something I think a lot of retailers are guilty of.

[00:21:04] And I think it's well-intentioned.

[00:21:06] I think that retailers are recognizing there's so much change.

[00:21:09] They can't afford to stay still.

[00:21:12] And doing something is better than doing nothing, right?

[00:21:15] With any kind of tech implementation, it really has to be, you know, you really have to know what you're trying to achieve.

[00:21:24] What problem is it going to solve for your customer?

[00:21:26] How is it going to improve the experience?

[00:21:29] And don't just jump on that technology bandwagon.

[00:21:32] Now, Rich, before we started recording, you talked about how sometimes when retailers look to technology to solve problems,

[00:21:39] to cut friction, sometimes it unintentionally adds friction to the experience.

[00:21:44] And you also talked about the importance of the human element in all of this technology and digital transformation.

[00:21:53] So maybe you can elaborate on this point now for our listeners.

[00:21:56] Yeah, I think what happens is, and I think all of us are guilty of it to some extent,

[00:22:01] is that technology can often be developed in a silo.

[00:22:05] And it's the, somebody goes to a show and sees something and it's great.

[00:22:10] And it's great within the silo that they are in, but not necessarily,

[00:22:16] it doesn't necessarily enable what others are doing.

[00:22:21] And I'll give you a simple example.

[00:22:23] So when we implemented self-checkouts by our operations team,

[00:22:27] they built a very operationally efficient self-checkout,

[00:22:31] but there were parts of it that weren't intuitive.

[00:22:37] So we were looking at how to change that.

[00:22:39] And what they ended up doing was engaging with my CX UX team and web.

[00:22:43] Because if you think about it, the website is a self-checkout.

[00:22:46] The only difference is there isn't an associate there to help you.

[00:22:49] So they went in and looked at, okay, how do I redesign that experience

[00:22:54] with the thought process that there isn't an associate there to help if I mess up?

[00:23:00] Because you're there all by yourself.

[00:23:01] And so I think that's the myth sometimes in technology,

[00:23:05] is how do you look at it from the beginning to the end?

[00:23:09] And I think the other part of it is,

[00:23:12] and I think we've all been guilty of it.

[00:23:15] And I think, you know, we have a great CIO right now who's,

[00:23:18] who's kind of leading change is oftentimes we have a platform or a tech stack

[00:23:23] that would work for other purposes.

[00:23:27] And the more that we can leverage that across the enterprise,

[00:23:30] it has tremendous value.

[00:23:33] And there's often a resistance to it because if I'm in a,

[00:23:36] and I'm trying to stay as generic as I can for obvious reasons,

[00:23:40] but if I'm in a particular function,

[00:23:42] this is my top quadrant and this is who I want to really have as a tech,

[00:23:47] as a, as a, as a, as a SAS or whatever it is.

[00:23:51] And I don't want to have to compromise a little bit to use something we already

[00:23:55] have, but the more we can leverage what we have,

[00:23:59] the more people are familiar with it, the easier it is to train.

[00:24:03] So I think that's the strategy that we're going down and we're seeing benefit

[00:24:06] from it now.

[00:24:07] The checkout is of course, you know, where we see the most friction.

[00:24:11] And that's why there's been such a, I think,

[00:24:14] concerted effort in the industry,

[00:24:16] both online and in stores to cut friction from that experience.

[00:24:20] But you're right.

[00:24:20] Sometimes retailers end up adding friction into the experience,

[00:24:24] whether that's a checkout free store where in order to enter,

[00:24:27] you have to have the app to tap in or just traditional self checkouts,

[00:24:32] not doing what they're supposed to.

[00:24:33] So there's, you know, it's, it's a journey, I suppose.

[00:24:36] I was going to say, take that checkout experience just as an example.

[00:24:39] I mean, I was at NRF and I know this probably didn't happen,

[00:24:42] but in my mind it did where I think it was a couple of years ago and CEOs were

[00:24:47] getting up on the NRF stage and talking about all the self checkouts they were

[00:24:51] deploying and how much they were going to save in labor.

[00:24:54] And it almost felt like mid NRF,

[00:24:57] someone's PR director said,

[00:24:58] stop talking about that because we're having this backlash with frontline

[00:25:02] associates who are saying,

[00:25:04] you're trying to take away my jobs and you watch the conversation shift.

[00:25:08] And as we deploy self checkouts,

[00:25:11] what we're trying to do is take a more thoughtful approach that it isn't about

[00:25:14] self checkout.

[00:25:15] It's about frictionless checkout and it's about choice.

[00:25:18] From my own perspective,

[00:25:20] and it's what makes retail a little bit more challenging today.

[00:25:23] There are days where I don't feel like peopling and I just want to go to a

[00:25:28] self checkout, same product, same store.

[00:25:31] There's days where I'm, you know,

[00:25:33] chatty and I want to go through a self check.

[00:25:35] I want to go through a full service checkout.

[00:25:37] And so,

[00:25:37] and there's days where I want to go through an assisted checkout with a

[00:25:41] tablet.

[00:25:42] And there's days where I don't even want to go in the store.

[00:25:44] I want to check out from home.

[00:25:45] And so I think our job is to make the checkout process frictionless and stop

[00:25:52] talking about this kind of autonomous store in this one size fits all.

[00:25:57] Yeah.

[00:25:58] I think it's about making it frictionless,

[00:25:59] but also about giving customers the choice.

[00:26:01] Cause as you just said,

[00:26:02] you as one individual consumer have multiple ways that you prefer to check out

[00:26:06] depending on the occasion.

[00:26:07] So for retailers,

[00:26:09] I can imagine managing that complexity is probably incredibly difficult,

[00:26:12] but ultimately to go back to your earlier point,

[00:26:16] it's about knowing your customer and what they want in that moment.

[00:26:20] Um,

[00:26:21] you touched on technology potentially coming for retail jobs or the perception that

[00:26:27] technology is coming for retail jobs.

[00:26:29] And so that is a really nice transition to our next topic.

[00:26:33] Retail jobs,

[00:26:34] you know,

[00:26:35] it's getting increasingly difficult to attract and retain talent in the

[00:26:38] industry.

[00:26:39] And you said earlier that,

[00:26:41] um,

[00:26:42] retail for you was an accidental career.

[00:26:44] I think that's true for a lot of people.

[00:26:45] How do we tackle this rich?

[00:26:47] How do we make retail a vibrant career option again?

[00:26:51] I think by going to the grassroots,

[00:26:53] I think by going to the college level and not just college,

[00:26:59] because you're,

[00:27:00] you're,

[00:27:00] you're not at college is not always going to produce the best retailer.

[00:27:03] So it could be somebody with years of retail experience who hasn't found a

[00:27:07] career yet.

[00:27:08] I will tell you there's people that are coming out of the military who've been

[00:27:12] in supply core for four or six years and don't know what they want to do.

[00:27:15] We have a,

[00:27:17] a training program,

[00:27:18] which I can talk about in a second that will take them and introduce them to

[00:27:23] retail.

[00:27:24] And I have been teaching them on my second semester and I'm at the end of the

[00:27:29] semester now where I'm answering a lot of students questions and it's,

[00:27:33] I don't know what to do next.

[00:27:34] How do I discover a career?

[00:27:36] And so I think the more that we as retailers can say,

[00:27:40] how do we lean into that grassroots?

[00:27:44] How do we make retail truly a profession and not just as a designer or as a

[00:27:52] buyer or as a,

[00:27:54] as an it tech specialist,

[00:27:56] but as a frontline manager or someone taking care of patrons.

[00:28:00] I think that's when we start to see this kind of resurgence and almost

[00:28:06] renaissance of,

[00:28:07] of retail as a profession.

[00:28:09] I also think that it addresses the lack of diversity within retail in some

[00:28:15] areas,

[00:28:16] because rather than just go to some of the traditional schools that have retail

[00:28:20] programs,

[00:28:21] since 50% of the people that are in retail don't have degrees that relate to

[00:28:27] retail.

[00:28:27] I have people that work for me that have degrees in chemistry and so on.

[00:28:31] I think that by doing that at the grassroots level,

[00:28:35] you can cast a very wide net and find a much more diverse talent pool to recruit

[00:28:44] from and to train and to bring up through the organization.

[00:28:47] Yeah.

[00:28:48] I heard the former CEO of ASOS,

[00:28:51] Nick Bayton,

[00:28:52] I heard him speak a couple of weeks ago and he touched on something that

[00:28:57] previous retail CEOs who have come on my podcast are also very keen to remind

[00:29:01] us all,

[00:29:02] which is that retail is one of the few industries where you can genuinely start

[00:29:05] out stocking shelves and with enough hard work and determination,

[00:29:09] you can move your way up to the boardroom.

[00:29:11] And that is really unique and special about retail.

[00:29:14] And I think it's something that should be celebrated,

[00:29:15] but clearly there's,

[00:29:17] there's a lot to do on,

[00:29:20] on the kind of,

[00:29:21] you know,

[00:29:22] ensuring that,

[00:29:23] that it's seen as that,

[00:29:25] that career progression,

[00:29:26] that mobility is,

[00:29:28] is communicated.

[00:29:29] And I guess specifically on the topic of diversity and inclusion,

[00:29:33] it feels like,

[00:29:33] yes,

[00:29:34] the industry is making great strides,

[00:29:35] but there's always a ton more to do.

[00:29:37] And a couple of years ago,

[00:29:39] I spent some time at the BRC,

[00:29:41] which is the big retail trade body here in the UK.

[00:29:43] And they were launching their first D&I report at the time.

[00:29:46] And I know that the biggest challenge was getting the retailers to submit the

[00:29:50] data because that data isn't always that straightforward.

[00:29:53] So lots of challenges.

[00:29:55] Definitely.

[00:29:55] It feels like we're moving in the right direction,

[00:29:57] but I don't know,

[00:29:58] I guess specifically around D&I,

[00:30:00] do you think there's anything more that either the retailers themselves can be

[00:30:03] doing or more that we should be,

[00:30:05] we as an industry should be doing here?

[00:30:08] I do.

[00:30:09] I think it's,

[00:30:11] and I'll make the correlation.

[00:30:13] So we,

[00:30:14] we know that we want to sell more sustainable goods and,

[00:30:21] and we want product that's better for the environment,

[00:30:24] but we also know that price and budgetary concerns are going to outweigh doing good

[00:30:33] for many consumers.

[00:30:34] And so you have to find a way to,

[00:30:36] to balance the two.

[00:30:38] And I think,

[00:30:40] you know,

[00:30:41] without commenting on,

[00:30:42] on DEI programs and the intent,

[00:30:46] I look at it not as programmatic,

[00:30:50] but just as a good business model.

[00:30:52] If my customer is diverse,

[00:30:54] then I want to have a diverse team in all spectrums.

[00:30:59] And if I,

[00:31:01] and actually I'll repeat this and I've said it a couple of times.

[00:31:03] So I was having a conversation during the pandemic with Drew Neiser who runs CMO huddles and he was running kind of a one day event.

[00:31:12] And we were talking about diversity within the industry marketing as well.

[00:31:17] And I gave him the answer of,

[00:31:19] you know,

[00:31:19] I can only hire who's in the packet.

[00:31:20] And he kind of accepted that.

[00:31:22] Well,

[00:31:23] my background's also product development and sourcing.

[00:31:25] And about five minutes later,

[00:31:27] he said to me,

[00:31:28] Hey,

[00:31:28] if you had a new idea for a product and you didn't have anybody in your manufacturing base that could make it,

[00:31:34] what would you do?

[00:31:35] And I said,

[00:31:36] well,

[00:31:36] I'd go to the ends of the earth.

[00:31:38] There's got to be someplace out there that I can go where I can source the product that I want.

[00:31:42] He said,

[00:31:42] well,

[00:31:42] then why aren't you doing that with people?

[00:31:44] And that's one of the things that led me to wanting to become an adjunct instructor because I wanted to go see firsthand where students may be taking a retail course or a consumer behavior course that had no intent of going into the retail industry,

[00:32:00] but understanding what it is that they were looking for and how can retail at a,

[00:32:07] at kind of a primacy level,

[00:32:09] encourage them to try this as a career.

[00:32:13] And I think the second part to that is what the retailers need to do in terms of resurrecting or rebuilding some of the training programs that we had 20,

[00:32:23] 30 years ago.

[00:32:24] And we've started to do that at the Navy exchange.

[00:32:26] Yeah.

[00:32:27] So interesting.

[00:32:28] And so what,

[00:32:29] can you tell us a little bit more about what you're learning from the students?

[00:32:34] Cause you're teaching retail at George Mason university and you also have your own retail podcast called retail relates.

[00:32:40] So I know you refer to these as your side gigs.

[00:32:43] I mean,

[00:32:43] they sound like two extra potentially full-time jobs speaking from experience of running a podcast.

[00:32:49] I know it's a lot of hard work,

[00:32:50] but I guess you've kind of touched on what got you into teaching.

[00:32:55] What have you learned from it and how are you balancing it with the day job?

[00:32:58] So I actually,

[00:32:59] it's a good question and there's days where,

[00:33:02] and I know you can relate to this.

[00:33:04] There there's days where it does feel like a,

[00:33:06] another full-time job.

[00:33:06] It's it's,

[00:33:07] I think people underestimate the amount of work that it takes to do this.

[00:33:11] Thankfully,

[00:33:11] I have a couple of what I call podcast BFFs that I,

[00:33:15] that I'm able to work with,

[00:33:16] but you know,

[00:33:18] I've,

[00:33:19] I've been one who hasn't necessarily always been good at work-life balance,

[00:33:24] but I'm good at work life harmony.

[00:33:26] And so there's things that I learn at work that I bring into the classroom with me.

[00:33:31] And there's things I take away from the classroom that I bring into work with me.

[00:33:34] So when we have a discussion about self checkout,

[00:33:37] and I'm hearing 40 students who are consumers,

[00:33:41] who are telling me their views and researching articles,

[00:33:44] it informs the way that I think when I go back to work.

[00:33:47] And the same thing with the podcast,

[00:33:50] as you know,

[00:33:51] you know,

[00:33:51] you have the opportunity to speak to some of the,

[00:33:54] some of the brightest people in the industry.

[00:33:57] And I,

[00:33:58] you know,

[00:33:59] my catchphrase has been,

[00:33:59] I'm going to take,

[00:34:00] I'm going to make a note of that and take it back to my leadership team,

[00:34:03] because you're learning from that.

[00:34:05] I think what I've learned is that right now,

[00:34:12] I think there's a high percentage of college students that are getting a degree

[00:34:16] that really,

[00:34:17] you're not sure what they're going to do with the rest of their lives.

[00:34:20] And as scary as that may seem to them at the time,

[00:34:25] I thought I knew what I wanted to do at that age,

[00:34:29] but I ended up pivoting and many of us have.

[00:34:32] And so I think being able to expose them to different opportunities,

[00:34:38] including retail,

[00:34:38] but there's other opportunities out there is encouraging.

[00:34:43] At the same time,

[00:34:45] a lot of the conversations,

[00:34:47] in fact,

[00:34:47] it's one that I've been having over the weekend on the discussion board with

[00:34:50] them is about AI and what that's going to do to all industries and

[00:34:57] including retail and how that's going to impact their potential for jobs,

[00:35:01] because many of them are seeing it as a replacement for them.

[00:35:07] And that jobs will become more scarce as a result,

[00:35:10] which is a legitimate fear,

[00:35:12] but one that I think if students or any of us face in the right way,

[00:35:18] it can actually become an enabler,

[00:35:19] not an inhibitor.

[00:35:25] Thank you for listening to Retail Disrupted.

[00:35:28] If you enjoyed this episode and would like to support the podcast,

[00:35:31] please leave a rating or review or share it with others.

[00:35:34] It really makes a difference.